Discussion:
Warner Classics bringing forth a new set of Furtwängler remasterings
(too old to reply)
Randy Lane
2021-01-30 14:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Curious to find out more about the contents.

Likely just EMI/HMV originals.

If so, will the RIA Ring be included?

https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
John Fowler
2021-01-30 17:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I hope Warner does a better job than they did with their 21 CD box "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings".
It had some obvious omissions, even forgetting some important EMI studio recordings:
the Wagner Prelude & Liebestod from 1938, and postwar recordings of Mahler, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and lots of Wagner + the studio Die Walkure.

Live recordings previously issued by EMI:
Beethoven 2, 8, 9, Fidelio*
Brahms 1, 3, 4
Bruckner 7*, 8*
Mozart Don Giovanni*
Wagner Ring*
* not in "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings"
An absolutely complete Warner WF box would would be about 50 CDs.
drh8h
2021-02-03 13:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I hope Warner does a better job than they did with their 21 CD box "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings".
the Wagner Prelude & Liebestod from 1938, and postwar recordings of Mahler, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and lots of Wagner + the studio Die Walkure.
Beethoven 2, 8, 9, Fidelio*
Brahms 1, 3, 4
Bruckner 7*, 8*
Mozart Don Giovanni*
Wagner Ring*
* not in "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings"
An absolutely complete Warner WF box would would be about 50 CDs.
I suspect the rights to all of those live Salzburg opera performances have reverted to Orfeo. I know the Otello was reissued by them a few years ago. The same thing happened to the Szell broadcasts originally issued by Sony.

DH
gggg gggg
2021-02-13 02:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I hope Warner does a better job than they did with their 21 CD box "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings".
the Wagner Prelude & Liebestod from 1938, and postwar recordings of Mahler, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and lots of Wagner + the studio Die Walkure.
Beethoven 2, 8, 9, Fidelio*
Brahms 1, 3, 4
Bruckner 7*, 8*
Mozart Don Giovanni*
(Recent Youtube upload):

Mozart - Don Giovanni Opera by Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954), NEW MASTERING (recording of the Century)
John Fowler
2021-02-14 04:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I hope Warner does a better job than they did with their 21 CD box "Wilhelm Furtwangler: the Great EMI Recordings".
the Wagner Prelude & Liebestod from 1938, and postwar recordings of Mahler, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and lots of Wagner + the studio Die Walkure.
Beethoven 2, 8, 9, Fidelio*
Brahms 1, 3, 4
Bruckner 7*, 8*
Mozart Don Giovanni*
Mozart - Don Giovanni Opera by Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954), NEW MASTERING (recording of the Century)
Actually EMI issued 2 different Salzburg Don Giovannis - choice of Tito Gobbi or Cesare Siepi.
Also Brahms 1,2,3,4

Néstor Castiglione
2021-02-04 03:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
drh8h
2021-02-04 13:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
They don't specify what they mean by a "box." It could just be the same set of Beethoven symphonies EMI reissued numerous times. Unless someone has more information, I am not assuming this is a "complete" remastering of Furtwängler's recordings either studio, or otherwise.

DH
Randy Lane
2021-02-04 14:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by drh8h
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
They don't specify what they mean by a "box." It could just be the same set of Beethoven symphonies EMI reissued numerous times. Unless someone has more information, I am not assuming this is a "complete" remastering of Furtwängler's recordings either studio, or otherwise.
DH
A clip from the Tower Japan announcement (pardon the Google Translate wierdness)

The two symphonies recorded here are for the "New Furtwängler Complete Works" scheduled to be released in the fall of 2021, and the 24bit / 192kHz remastered sound source from the original master tape by Studio Art & Son in 2021 is adopted. The LP will be the first public release of this new remastering. The newest remastered sound source so far was from Abbey Road Studios in 2010-2011, but this time it is left on the master tape more than ever with the latest equipment and a careful new remaster with even higher bits. The record has been reproduced. This sound source will be released in advance with this 180g analog LP (limited quantity production) and digital distribution only.

I think this will be everything available on Warner-owned tapes and disks.
John Fowler
2021-02-04 17:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Post by drh8h
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
They don't specify what they mean by a "box." It could just be the same set of Beethoven symphonies EMI reissued numerous times. Unless someone has more information, I am not assuming this is a "complete" remastering of Furtwängler's recordings either studio, or otherwise.
DH
A clip from the Tower Japan announcement (pardon the Google Translate wierdness)
The two symphonies recorded here are for the "New Furtwängler Complete Works" scheduled to be released in the fall of 2021, and the 24bit / 192kHz remastered sound source from the original master tape by Studio Art & Son in 2021 is adopted. The LP will be the first public release of this new remastering. The newest remastered sound source so far was from Abbey Road Studios in 2010-2011, but this time it is left on the master tape more than ever with the latest equipment and a careful new remaster with even higher bits. The record has been reproduced. This sound source will be released in advance with this 180g analog LP (limited quantity production) and digital distribution only.
I think this will be everything available on Warner-owned tapes and disks.
I wonder if it will include both Versions of the 1951 Bayreuth Beethoven 9th.
EMI recorded it live, but only issued it on LP with some patch sessions recorded at rehearsals.
The unedited live performance had to wait until 2008, when it was released on Orfeo.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-29-51/dp/B00129XQ2W/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=furtwangler+bayreuth&qid=1612457666&s=music&sr=1-1
Orfeo supposedly used a radio tape, but EMI should have their own unedited mastertape of the performance in a vault somewhere.
Randy Lane
2021-02-04 17:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Post by drh8h
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
They don't specify what they mean by a "box." It could just be the same set of Beethoven symphonies EMI reissued numerous times. Unless someone has more information, I am not assuming this is a "complete" remastering of Furtwängler's recordings either studio, or otherwise.
DH
A clip from the Tower Japan announcement (pardon the Google Translate wierdness)
The two symphonies recorded here are for the "New Furtwängler Complete Works" scheduled to be released in the fall of 2021, and the 24bit / 192kHz remastered sound source from the original master tape by Studio Art & Son in 2021 is adopted. The LP will be the first public release of this new remastering. The newest remastered sound source so far was from Abbey Road Studios in 2010-2011, but this time it is left on the master tape more than ever with the latest equipment and a careful new remaster with even higher bits. The record has been reproduced. This sound source will be released in advance with this 180g analog LP (limited quantity production) and digital distribution only.
I think this will be everything available on Warner-owned tapes and disks.
I wonder if it will include both Versions of the 1951 Bayreuth Beethoven 9th.
EMI recorded it live, but only issued it on LP with some patch sessions recorded at rehearsals.
The unedited live performance had to wait until 2008, when it was released on Orfeo.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-29-51/dp/B00129XQ2W/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=furtwangler+bayreuth&qid=1612457666&s=music&sr=1-1
Orfeo supposedly used a radio tape, but EMI should have their own unedited mastertape of the performance in a vault somewhere.
EMIs tapes include some parts of the live performance and considerable portions are actually from the dress rehearsal. Questions remain whether the complete actual live performance was preserved in its entirety by EMI.
Randy Lane
2021-02-04 17:16:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Post by John Fowler
Post by Randy Lane
Post by drh8h
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
Glad to see this announced. Hoping the 1939 Beethoven 9 is reissued complete. The GCOC transfer cut the repeat in the scherzo in order to cram the performance together with an overture onto a single disc. I've read that Toshiba/EMI remastered this performance and that the results were splendid, but I've never heard that one. Anyway, glad to see that Warner isn't just going to be shoving pre-existing transfers into a new box à la Universal.
They don't specify what they mean by a "box." It could just be the same set of Beethoven symphonies EMI reissued numerous times. Unless someone has more information, I am not assuming this is a "complete" remastering of Furtwängler's recordings either studio, or otherwise.
DH
A clip from the Tower Japan announcement (pardon the Google Translate wierdness)
The two symphonies recorded here are for the "New Furtwängler Complete Works" scheduled to be released in the fall of 2021, and the 24bit / 192kHz remastered sound source from the original master tape by Studio Art & Son in 2021 is adopted. The LP will be the first public release of this new remastering. The newest remastered sound source so far was from Abbey Road Studios in 2010-2011, but this time it is left on the master tape more than ever with the latest equipment and a careful new remaster with even higher bits. The record has been reproduced. This sound source will be released in advance with this 180g analog LP (limited quantity production) and digital distribution only.
I think this will be everything available on Warner-owned tapes and disks.
I wonder if it will include both Versions of the 1951 Bayreuth Beethoven 9th.
EMI recorded it live, but only issued it on LP with some patch sessions recorded at rehearsals.
The unedited live performance had to wait until 2008, when it was released on Orfeo.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-No-29-51/dp/B00129XQ2W/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=furtwangler+bayreuth&qid=1612457666&s=music&sr=1-1
Orfeo supposedly used a radio tape, but EMI should have their own unedited mastertape of the performance in a vault somewhere.
EMIs tapes include some parts of the live performance and considerable portions are actually from the dress rehearsal. Questions remain whether the complete actual live performance was preserved in its entirety by EMI.
That the release includes dress rehearsal portions was revealed (in some opinions somewhat scandalously) by Elizabeth Schwarzkopf in her memoir of her late husband, the famed producer Walter Legge:

https://www.amazon.com/Off-Record-Memoir-Walter-Legge/dp/1555535194/ref=tmm_pap_title_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1612458763&sr=1-2
Phl Maestro
2021-02-04 18:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I've long thought that the EMI Vienna recording of The Moldau is one of Furtwangler's most undervalued, as well as one of his best of non-German/Austrian music.

A new mastering wouldn't hurt.
Néstor Castiglione
2021-02-04 20:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I've long thought that the EMI Vienna recording of The Moldau is one of Furtwangler's most undervalued, as well as one of his best of non-German/Austrian music.
A new mastering wouldn't hurt.
John Ardoin praised that recording highly in his "The Furtwängler Record." It's been awhile since I last dusted it off my bookshelf, but I seem to recall that he felt that the first few bars sounded a touch prosaic, before giving way to an interpretation whose sweep, color, and seamlessness of transitions put it among the conductor's finest. There have been two remasterings on CD from EMI (three if we count the Japanese SACD remasters); all of them sound fine. The earliest one had a dry ambience which emphasized the mid-range, with shallow bass, and recessed treble. The two later ones were louder and had a noticeably boosted bass. They also had what sounded like just a dab of added reverb to them. I'd be curious to hear how Art et Son would handle these recordings. Haven't heard the recent remasters of Furtwängler's Beethoven and Brahms on Warner, but I'm guessing that's their handiwork too?
drh8h
2021-02-05 00:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by Phl Maestro
Post by Randy Lane
Curious to find out more about the contents.
Likely just EMI/HMV originals.
If so, will the RIA Ring be included?
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/beethoven-symphonies-1-3-eroica
I've long thought that the EMI Vienna recording of The Moldau is one of Furtwangler's most undervalued, as well as one of his best of non-German/Austrian music.
A new mastering wouldn't hurt.
John Ardoin praised that recording highly in his "The Furtwängler Record." It's been awhile since I last dusted it off my bookshelf, but I seem to recall that he felt that the first few bars sounded a touch prosaic, before giving way to an interpretation whose sweep, color, and seamlessness of transitions put it among the conductor's finest. There have been two remasterings on CD from EMI (three if we count the Japanese SACD remasters); all of them sound fine. The earliest one had a dry ambience which emphasized the mid-range, with shallow bass, and recessed treble. The two later ones were louder and had a noticeably boosted bass. They also had what sounded like just a dab of added reverb to them. I'd be curious to hear how Art et Son would handle these recordings. Haven't heard the recent remasters of Furtwängler's Beethoven and Brahms on Warner, but I'm guessing that's their handiwork too?
If you are talking about the Beethoven Symphony box of a few years back, that was an Abbey Road Studios job from around 2010 for the JP SACDs. The Brahms I believe was also by them. Some Furtwängler recordings remastered by Art et Son were in the Philharmonia box.

DH
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