Discussion:
Happy Thanksgiving!
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Dan Koren
2021-11-25 06:50:18 UTC
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Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)

dk
gggg gggg
2021-11-25 08:50:49 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/22657/tofu-turkey-ii/
gggg gggg
2021-11-25 08:53:10 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/22657/tofu-turkey-ii/
https://inhabitat.com/6-vegan-vegetarian-and-raw-food-turkey-alternatives-for-thanksgiving/
Andy Evans
2021-11-25 09:59:08 UTC
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"How did you prepare the turkey, darling?"

"I just told it straight - you're gonna die....."
gggg gggg
2021-11-25 10:26:32 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
"How did you prepare the turkey, darling?"
"I just told it straight - you're gonna die....."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thanksgiving+turkey+in+terror&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj3yICQprP0AhW8AjQIHSbxC5EQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=thanksgiving+turkey+in+terror&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ7wMQJzoGCAAQCBAeUNgKWK4dYIMhaABwAHgAgAGdAYgB9guSAQM3LjeYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=amSfYffrNryF0PEPpuKviAk&bih=526&biw=1093#imgrc=4HFtfzxM8xxDXM
Frank Berger
2021-11-25 13:01:53 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
For those who think it's cruel to eat animals. You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption. Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment? Who are you to say?
Bob Harper
2021-11-25 17:10:09 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that
vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had
they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to
have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been
slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't
really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion
that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.

FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen
counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going
on the spit to be roasted.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2021-11-25 17:26:11 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob. Not me.

My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress. I think that just motivates them to be better food.

Happy Thanksgiving.
FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going on the spit to be roasted.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Bob Harper
Herman
2021-11-25 18:59:12 UTC
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Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter.
According to recent research octopus (I'm not going to use the plural) appear to have a highly developed brain, all the way into their various legs / arms.

So maybe all those animals are saying funny things about us... Happy thanksgiving!
Dan Koren
2021-11-26 00:36:55 UTC
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Post by Herman
According to recent research octopus (I'm not
going to use the plural) appear to have a highly
developed brain, all the way into their various
legs / arms.
Far more developed than some politicians' brains.
Post by Herman
So maybe all those animals are saying funny
things about us... Happy thanksgiving!
My cats seem grateful for all the tuna and for
the daily massage. They just nominated me
for the 2022 Meowbel Prize. They believe I
discovered canned tuna!

dk
Bob Harper
2021-11-26 04:09:41 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that
vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all
had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better
never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then
been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't
really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion
that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob.  Not me.
My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been
measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress.    I
think that just motivates them to be better food.
Actually, I believe that they taste better when levels of cortisol are
lower, which is the burden of Dr. Temple Grandin's pioneering work in
handling animals in ways that reduce stress.

She is a real genius who is also autistic. A fascinating person.

Bob Harper
Happy Thanksgiving.
Post by Bob Harper
FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the
kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning,
and going on the spit to be roasted.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2021-11-26 15:45:30 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
dk
For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob.  Not me.
My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress.    I think that just motivates them to be better food.
Actually, I believe that they taste better when levels of cortisol are lower, which is the burden of Dr. Temple Grandin's pioneering work in handling animals in ways that reduce stress.
She is a real genius who is also autistic. A fascinating person.
Loved the movie.
Bob Harper
Happy Thanksgiving.
FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going on the spit to be roasted.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Bob Harper
Dan Koren
2021-11-26 00:26:57 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Since animals have no consciousness in the
human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
is nonsensical.
Of course they do. You have probably never lived
with cats -- did you?

Also note that you are effectively contradincting
yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
they should be treated humanely. What the heck
does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?

dk
Frank Berger
2021-11-26 02:14:54 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Post by Bob Harper
Since animals have no consciousness in the
human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
is nonsensical.
Of course they do. You have probably never lived
with cats -- did you?
Also note that you are effectively contradincting
yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
they should be treated humanely. What the heck
does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
dk
Under Jewish law, animals have the right to not be abused; but this does not include the right not to be slaughtered and eaten.
Dan Koren
2021-11-26 02:52:59 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Under Jewish law, animals have the right
to not be abused; but this does not include
the right not to be slaughtered and eaten.
Just as the sticker on many organic meat
foods says: "Humanely raised, mercilessly
butchered". There's "civilization" for you!

dk
Bob Harper
2021-11-26 04:11:30 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Post by Bob Harper
Since animals have no consciousness in the
human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
is nonsensical.
Of course they do. You have probably never lived
with cats -- did you?
Also note that you are effectively contradincting
yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
they should be treated humanely. What the heck
does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
dk
The responsibility to treat them humanely is an obligation on us as
human beings. I trust you will understand the distinction.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2021-11-26 15:47:23 UTC
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Post by Dan Koren
Post by Bob Harper
Since animals have no consciousness in the
human sense, it doesn't  really matter. They
were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
is nonsensical.
Of course they do. You have probably never lived
with cats -- did you?
Also note that you are effectively contradincting
yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
they should be treated humanely. What the heck
does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
dk
The responsibility to treat them humanely is an obligation on us as human beings. I trust you will understand the distinction.
Bob Harper
Well, there's some kind of relationship between rights and obligations, but I don't feel like thinking about it right now.
Dan Koren
2021-11-30 18:23:27 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Since animals have no consciousness in
the human sense, it doesn't really matter.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211126-why-insects-are-more-sensitive-than-they-seem

dk

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