Discussion:
George Szell Warner Recordings 1934-1970
Add Reply
John Fowler
2020-11-15 19:11:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?

(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)

--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Frank Berger
2020-11-15 19:53:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
ARKIVMUSIC show 1937 for the Dvorak, 1968 for the Mozart
songs, but 1965 for the Strauss songs.

Discogs shows September 1-3, 1966 for the Strauss.

Charm doesn't list Four last Songs but shows 1968 for the
Mozart and other Strauss songs.

What a mess.
J.A.W.
2020-11-15 20:58:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
ARKIVMUSIC show 1937 for the Dvorak, 1968 for the Mozart
songs, but 1965 for the Strauss songs.
Discogs shows September 1-3, 1966 for the Strauss.
Charm doesn't list Four last Songs but shows 1968 for the
Mozart and other Strauss songs.
What a mess.
The year for the Vier letzte Lieder, 1965, is probably correct; the LP was released in 1966. The other Richard Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf and the London SO (Opp.27/1, 27/4, 36/1, 37/3, 41/1, 48/4 and 88/1) were recorded in 1968; they were released in 1969.
Andy
2020-11-15 22:20:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
ARKIVMUSIC show 1937 for the Dvorak, 1968 for the Mozart
songs, but 1965 for the Strauss songs.
Discogs shows September 1-3, 1966 for the Strauss.
Charm doesn't list Four last Songs but shows 1968 for the
Mozart and other Strauss songs.
What a mess.
Discogs information is all user-sourced. I use Discogs extensively and try to be as accurate as possible in my contributions. But, there are any number of inaccuracies in the database depending on the information the individual contributor has at hand or takes the time to verify.

Andrew
Frank Berger
2020-11-15 23:26:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy
Post by Frank Berger
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
ARKIVMUSIC show 1937 for the Dvorak, 1968 for the Mozart
songs, but 1965 for the Strauss songs.
Discogs shows September 1-3, 1966 for the Strauss.
Charm doesn't list Four last Songs but shows 1968 for the
Mozart and other Strauss songs.
What a mess.
Discogs information is all user-sourced. I use Discogs extensively and try to be as accurate as possible in my contributions. But, there are any number of inaccuracies in the database depending on the information the individual contributor has at hand or takes the time to verify.
Andrew
Good to know.
Néstor Castiglione
2020-11-16 00:19:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Where did you get your copy, John? I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back in August; received a notification last week that the set wouldn't be shipped out to me until sometime in December.
Frank Berger
2020-11-16 02:06:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Néstor Castiglione
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Where did you get your copy, John? I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back in August; received a notification last week that the set wouldn't be shipped out to me until sometime in December.
That's strange. I ordered mine from Amazon on 11/11 and
they said it shipped on 11/12.
Frank Berger
2020-11-16 03:42:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:12:01 AM UTC-8, John
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in
Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937
on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was
recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London
Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the
new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Where did you get your copy, John? I pre-ordered mine on
Amazon back in August; received a notification last week
that the set wouldn't be shipped out to me until sometime
in December.
That's strange.  I ordered mine from Amazon on 11/11 and
they said it shipped on 11/12.
Actually my order was from an Amazon seller, not Amazon
itself: Rarewaves-Imports. It shipped from the UK and the
predicted arrival date range is 11/30-12/15.
John Fowler
2020-11-16 10:37:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:12:01 AM UTC-8, John
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in
Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937
on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was
recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London
Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the
new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Where did you get your copy, John? I pre-ordered mine on
Amazon back in August; received a notification last week
that the set wouldn't be shipped out to me until sometime
in December.
That's strange. I ordered mine from Amazon on 11/11 and
they said it shipped on 11/12.
Actually my order was from an Amazon seller, not Amazon
itself: Rarewaves-Imports. It shipped from the UK and the
predicted arrival date range is 11/30-12/15.
I pre-ordered it directly through US Amazon on September 21.
It arrived via US Mail on November 14.
John Fowler
2020-11-16 10:59:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937 during a tour of the Czech Philharmonic.
Warner and Dutton agree that the Dvorak Cello Concerto was recorded in Prague, but disagree on the date:
--- 28 April 1937 on Dutton
--- 8 April 1938 on Warner
George Szell was Director of the German Opera House in Prague from 1927 - 1937, and of the Scottish National Orchestra from 1937 - 1939.
These dates makes the Dutton chronology more likely:
--- According to Dutton, Szell left Czechoslovakia after recording the Cello Concerto, and was already living in the UK a year later when the orchestra arrived on tour.
--- According to Warner, Szell left Czechoslovakia in 1937, but returned for a guest engagement in April, 1938 (possible, but less likely considering the political situation).
John Fowler
2020-11-16 11:29:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937 during a tour of the Czech Philharmonic.
Warner and Dutton also agree that the Dvorak Cello Concerto was recorded in Prague, but disagree on the date:
--- 28 April 1937 on Dutton
--- 8 April 1938 on Warner

George Szell was Director of the German Opera House in Prague from 1927 - 1937, and of the Scottish National Orchestra from 1937 - 1939.
These dates makes the Dutton chronology more likely:
--- According to Dutton, Szell left Czechoslovakia after recording the Cello Concerto, and was living in the UK when the orchestra arrived on tour a few months later.
--- According to Warner, Szell left Czechoslovakia in 1937, but returned for a guest engagement in April, 1938.
Possible, but less likely considering the political situation.
The Anschluss (German occupation of the Sudetenland) was on 1 October, 1938.
John Fowler
2020-11-16 17:29:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I found a Szell Discography on the internet. It agrees with Naxos and Dutton:
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
John Fowler
2020-11-16 23:11:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
On 8 April 1938 George Szell was conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.
He could have travelled to Prague for the Concerto recording session, but that seems unlikely due to the international situation.
The possible German invasion of Czechoslovakia was a hot topic that summer.
The Anschluss (German annexation of the Sudetenland) occurred on 1 October 1938.
So I am 90% sure the new Warner box is wrong, and the correct date is 28 April, 1937.
number_six
2020-11-17 01:13:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
Post by John Fowler
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
On 8 April 1938 George Szell was conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.
He could have travelled to Prague for the Concerto recording session, but that seems unlikely due to the international situation.
The possible German invasion of Czechoslovakia was a hot topic that summer.
The Anschluss (German annexation of the Sudetenland) occurred on 1 October 1938.
So I am 90% sure the new Warner box is wrong, and the correct date is 28 April, 1937.
I think the term Anschluss generally refers to the annexation of Austria itself -- which was followed in short order by annexation of Sudetenland (territory pried loose from Austria after end of WW I).

Certainly I agree travel to Prague in '38 would have been a daunting prospect.
wanwan
2020-11-17 08:49:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
Post by John Fowler
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
On 8 April 1938 George Szell was conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.
He could have travelled to Prague for the Concerto recording session, but that seems unlikely due to the international situation.
The possible German invasion of Czechoslovakia was a hot topic that summer.
The Anschluss (German annexation of the Sudetenland) occurred on 1 October 1938.
So I am 90% sure the new Warner box is wrong, and the correct date is 28 April, 1937.
To confuse things further, John Hunt's Szell discography show both the 9th symphony and cello concerto as recorded in London in April 1937.

-----
Eric
drh8h
2020-11-18 12:59:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
What is really needed is a comprehensive reissue of the recordings he made for Parlophon/Odeon in the 1920s. They are extremely rare. Interestingly, and if any one knows the reason, Lindström group records of the period seem to have different corporate owners: some by Warner, others by Sony. I noticed that when looking through the booklet for the Warner Debussy historical issue.

DH
Post by wanwan
Post by John Fowler
Post by John Fowler
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
On 8 April 1938 George Szell was conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.
He could have travelled to Prague for the Concerto recording session, but that seems unlikely due to the international situation.
The possible German invasion of Czechoslovakia was a hot topic that summer.
The Anschluss (German annexation of the Sudetenland) occurred on 1 October 1938.
So I am 90% sure the new Warner box is wrong, and the correct date is 28 April, 1937.
To confuse things further, John Hunt's Szell discography show both the 9th symphony and cello concerto as recorded in London in April 1937.
-----
Eric
Frank Berger
2020-11-18 13:41:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by wanwan
Post by John Fowler
Post by John Fowler
https://lee.classite.com/music/Szell/discography-szell.htm
On 8 April 1938 George Szell was conductor of the Scottish National Orchestra.
He could have travelled to Prague for the Concerto recording session, but that seems unlikely due to the international situation.
The possible German invasion of Czechoslovakia was a hot topic that summer.
The Anschluss (German annexation of the Sudetenland) occurred on 1 October 1938.
So I am 90% sure the new Warner box is wrong, and the correct date is 28 April, 1937.
To confuse things further, John Hunt's Szell discography show both the 9th symphony and cello concerto as recorded in London in April 1937.
-----
Eric
I wouldn't say this confuses things further. I would say it
adds to the evidence that the Warner dates are wrong.
ron...@usa.net
2020-11-18 19:06:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The February, 1938 issue of Gramophone has a review of the released set, and the March, 1938 issue has a small missive from Fred Gaisberg briefly describing the sessions in Prague, and then stating that both Casals and Szell were delighted with the finished results. Alan Kelly's database has the date as April 28, 1937, as does every source except the new Warner box. Clearly the Warner box is wrong.

RW
gggg gggg
2020-11-22 02:54:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
(Recent Youtube upload):

Review: Finally, Szell's Warner Recordings
gggg gggg
2020-11-24 02:07:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Fowler
The new box has some discrepancies in dates.
--- The Dvorak Cello Concerto with Casals recorded in Prague is dated 8 April 1938 on Warner, but 28 April 1937 on Dutton.
Does anyone have a reliable Casals discography?
(Warner and Dutton agree that Dvorak's Symphony 9 was recorded in London on 30 October 1937.)
--- The Mozart and Strauss songs with Schwarzkopf/ London Symphony are mis-dated on the "original jacket" in the new box. Recorded in September 1968, not 1965.
Concerning the 1944 MET "Walkure", is that a Szell must-have?

Loading...