Discussion:
Is this what Bach looked like?
(too old to reply)
M forever
2010-08-21 20:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Interesting.

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05

http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
Kip Williams
2010-08-21 22:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
Yeah, that is interesting. Thanks.


Kip W
William Sommerwerck
2010-08-21 22:51:57 UTC
Permalink
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."

I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
(What that rich German food will do to you!)

It's unfortunate that no one has commissioned a digital portrait of P D Q,
based on the skull that's shown in his biography.
Steven Bornfeld
2010-08-22 00:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
I don't have my copy of Christoph Wolff's book here, but I think I
remember this photo being in there somewhere, and I'm guessing it's the
one you're thinking of:

Loading Image...

Steve
Post by William Sommerwerck
It's unfortunate that no one has commissioned a digital portrait of P D Q,
based on the skull that's shown in his biography.
M forever
2010-08-22 02:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
        I don't have my copy of Christoph Wolff's book here, but I think I
remember this photo being in there somewhere, and I'm guessing it's the
http://www.pianoparadise.com/bach.jpg
There seems to be a slight, but only very slight resemblance to the
later Haussmann portrait which is pictured in one of the articles and
which is generally said to be the only known portrait which can be
assumed to be somewhat "authentic".
William Sommerwerck
2010-08-22 09:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Bornfeld
I don't have my copy of Christoph Wolff's book here, but
I think I remember this photo being in there somewhere,
http://www.pianoparadise.com/bach.jpg
That's it.
M forever
2010-08-22 02:04:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull. Or do you think that the skull expanded because of "that rich
German food"? What a silly comment. But probably the only thing you
could come up with. Apparently you know nothing about Germany except
for clichés. Certainly not in what conditions people like him lived
back then.
Post by William Sommerwerck
It's unfortunate that no one has commissioned a digital portrait of P D Q,
based on the skull that's shown in his biography.
Juan Rey
2010-08-24 06:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
M forever
2010-08-24 15:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
laraine
2010-08-24 20:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not

C.
Bob Harper
2010-08-24 21:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)

(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)

Bob Harper
laraine
2010-08-24 23:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Bob Harper
Maybe Bach was half West Indian like George
Bridgetower.

And Bach's father was of course a
Spaniard or Italian:

Loading Image...

C.
M forever
2010-08-25 00:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by laraine
Post by Bob Harper
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Bob Harper
Maybe Bach was half West Indian like George
Bridgetower.
And Bach's father was of course a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Johann_Ambrosius_Bach.jpg
That's actually a very typical face for the area. I had never seen his
picture before but when I clicked on the link it immediately reminded
me of several people I know from my time in Thüringen, including one
guy who looks exactly like that, even with the same kind of moustache,
except he has shorter hair and wears glasses; and his family has lived
in the area for centuries.
laraine
2010-08-25 00:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by laraine
Post by Bob Harper
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Bob Harper
Maybe Bach was half West Indian like George
Bridgetower.
And Bach's father was of course a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Johann_Ambrosius_Bach.jpg
That's actually a very typical face for the area. I had never seen his
picture before but when I clicked on the link it immediately reminded
me of several people I know from my time in Thüringen, including one
guy who looks exactly like that, even with the same kind of moustache,
except he has shorter hair and wears glasses; and his family has lived
in the area for centuries.
I was trying to be ridiculous...
Of course, he could be Greek or
Dutch, or just about anything else.

But one can see how such thinking
gets started.

Interesting, though, that you've seen
similar faces in the area.

C.
M forever
2010-08-25 00:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by laraine
Post by Bob Harper
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Bob Harper
Maybe Bach was half West Indian like George
Bridgetower.
And Bach's father was of course a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Johann_Ambrosius_Bach.jpg
That's actually a very typical face for the area. I had never seen his
picture before but when I clicked on the link it immediately reminded
me of several people I know from my time in Thüringen, including one
guy who looks exactly like that, even with the same kind of moustache,
except he has shorter hair and wears glasses; and his family has lived
in the area for centuries.
I was trying to be ridiculous...
Of course, he could be Greek or
Dutch, or just about anything else.
But one can see how such thinking
gets started.
Interesting, though, that you've seen
similar faces in the area.
Wherever you go, in many areas, especially but not only in the more
rural areas, you often see a spectrum of "typical" faces. That also
applies to some rural areas of former Eastern Germany (such as
Thüringen). People have of course become much more mobile than they
have ever been in the last century, in the last decades even, but
people in the former Eastern Block have been excluded from that
mobility until very recently. And, like I said, when I opened that
picture it immediately reminded me of several Thüringer I know, one in
particular. I wish I had picture of him.
Apart from the association to locals I know these pictures of Bach and
his father stir in me, and the memory of many places that I have been
to and played in where Bach also lived and performed, when I think of
Bach I also associate the very strong, very characteristic local
accent with my mental image of Bach and what he could have been like.
When historical people are portrayed in movies, they often speak the
modern "high" language, but most historical persons probably had very
strong local accents. It is said, for instance, that Beethoven had a
very strong accent from the region in the Rhineland that he was from.
Gerard
2010-08-25 14:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by laraine
Interesting, though, that you've seen
similar faces in the area.
C.
Probably it's 'typical' in many areas.
Matthew B. Tepper
2010-08-25 14:41:11 UTC
Permalink
I was trying to be ridiculous... Of course, he could be Greek or Dutch,
or just about anything else.
For he might have been a Roosian,
A French, or Turk, or Proosian,
Or perhaps Itali-an!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
laraine
2010-08-25 17:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I was trying to be ridiculous... Of course, he could be Greek or Dutch,
or just about anything else.
For he might have been a Roosian,
A French, or Turk, or Proosian,
Or perhaps Itali-an!
or an En-En-En-En-En-En-Englishman...

C.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
--
Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Matthew B. Tepper
2010-08-25 14:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
I see they gave him a bit of a mulatto look ... why not
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Grrrr!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Bob Harper
2010-08-25 15:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Bob Harper
I see they gave him a bit of a mulatto look ... why not
Does that mean he's related to that Moorish composer....Beethoven, I
think his name was. :)
(Sorry, Matthew, I just couldn't resist!)
Grrrr!
Ice?

Bob Harper
Allen
2010-08-25 01:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Maybe they thought he was Beethoven.
Allen
laraine
2010-08-25 17:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen
Post by laraine
Post by M forever
Post by Juan Rey
Post by M forever
Post by William Sommerwerck
"There's only one extant portrait of Johann Sebastian Bach..."
I've seen at least two, including one of him as a good-looking young man.
There are several, but most of them are not accepted as being possibly
authentic or realistic. Some of them are even doubted to be of Bach at
all.
Post by William Sommerwerck
(What that rich German food will do to you!)
The person in the reconstruction is rather "bulky", but not because he
is "fat" but because of his basic bone structure preserved in the
skull.
Oh, come on. The reconstruction has a double chin and the neck is
almost as wide as the head. Of course that is all surmise by the
reconstructors, but you can't say he's just big-boned like Cartman.
It's not surmise. It's based on the Haussmann portrait. The double
chin is one of an older person with a little fat, but not much.
I see they gave him a bit of a
mulatto look ... why not
C.
Maybe they thought he was Beethoven.
Allen
Indeed, that might be so.

I suppose Beethoven's skull might be
next.

C.
Paul Penna
2010-08-22 04:48:49 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
I'll be damned. Rod Steiger.
M forever
2010-08-22 05:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Penna
In article
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
I'll be damned. Rod Steiger.
LOL. I think he looks more like Ray Winstone.
Matthew B. Tepper
2010-08-22 06:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Penna
In article
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
I'll be damned. Rod Steiger.
And here I thought he looked like Brian Blessed.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
***** War is Peace **** Freedom is Slavery **** Fox is News *****
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Paul Penna
2010-08-23 02:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Paul Penna
In article
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
I'll be damned. Rod Steiger.
And here I thought he looked like Brian Blessed.
Well, more like the I Clavdivs version than the Blackadder or Flash
Godon ones, certainly. I'm sticking with Mr. Joyboy, though.
Matthew B. Tepper
2010-08-23 04:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Penna
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Paul Penna
In article
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
I'll be damned. Rod Steiger.
And here I thought he looked like Brian Blessed.
Well, more like the I Clavdivs version than the Blackadder or Flash
Godon ones, certainly. I'm sticking with Mr. Joyboy, though.
I was actually thinking of this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382113/
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
uncle dave
2010-08-22 08:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
The History Channel or Discovery Channel will show you the Shroud of
Turin's face of Jesus. Some day all will be known.
Uncle Dave
M forever
2010-08-22 08:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by uncle dave
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
The History Channel or Discovery Channel will show you the Shroud of
Turin's face of Jesus.  Some day all will be known.
Except that the shroud of Turin contains very, very little
information. I have seen the documentary and the method they used is
very clever, but still highly speculative. Besides, while we still
don't know how it was made, the shroud is a fake anyway. It didn't
even show up before the late middle ages.
Kip Williams
2010-08-22 13:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Except that the shroud of Turin contains very, very little
information. I have seen the documentary and the method they used is
very clever, but still highly speculative. Besides, while we still
don't know how it was made, the shroud is a fake anyway. It didn't
even show up before the late middle ages.
I have a 70s photography magazine where a plausible method is given,
involving nothing that would be unknown to a 14th century faker.


Kip W
Allen
2010-08-22 14:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kip Williams
Post by M forever
Except that the shroud of Turin contains very, very little
information. I have seen the documentary and the method they used is
very clever, but still highly speculative. Besides, while we still
don't know how it was made, the shroud is a fake anyway. It didn't
even show up before the late middle ages.
I have a 70s photography magazine where a plausible method is given,
involving nothing that would be unknown to a 14th century faker.
Kip W
It's funny how many relics take many centuries to show up. I seem to
remember reading something from 20 or 30 years ago that pointed out that
all the pieces of wood labeled as part of the "True Cross", most of
which magically appeared in the Middle Ages, amount to more wood than
would have been used to build Noah's Ark.
Allen
Kip Williams
2010-08-22 15:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen
It's funny how many relics take many centuries to show up. I seem to
remember reading something from 20 or 30 years ago that pointed out that
all the pieces of wood labeled as part of the "True Cross", most of
which magically appeared in the Middle Ages, amount to more wood than
would have been used to build Noah's Ark.
I know Mark Twain said something very close to that. As _The Innocents
Abroad_ progresses, he starts to rate churches on whether or not they
have a piece of the True Cross, in addition to a statement about how
much wood he's seen from it.


Kip W
Allen
2010-08-22 16:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kip Williams
Post by Allen
It's funny how many relics take many centuries to show up. I seem to
remember reading something from 20 or 30 years ago that pointed out that
all the pieces of wood labeled as part of the "True Cross", most of
which magically appeared in the Middle Ages, amount to more wood than
would have been used to build Noah's Ark.
I know Mark Twain said something very close to that. As _The Innocents
Abroad_ progresses, he starts to rate churches on whether or not they
have a piece of the True Cross, in addition to a statement about how
much wood he's seen from it.
Kip W
Twain might well be where I read it, changing 20 or 30 years to 70. We
had the "complete" green-bound Twain set that was published abound 1920,
and I had read most of it at least once before I finished elementary
school; some of it (essays, sketches, Puddin'head Wilson, Connecticut
Yankee and some others) several times. What a wonderful writer he was!
Incidentally, after reading Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses I was
never able to even start reading any Cooper. I still have and treasure
that set, which my mother had bought while working in a book store
before she married. Oh, and of course Twain never, never exaggerated--never!
Allen
Kip Williams
2010-08-22 13:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by uncle dave
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
The History Channel or Discovery Channel will show you the Shroud of
Turin's face of Jesus. Some day all will be known.
The face on Mars is the Shroud of Turin!


Kip W
Thornhill
2010-08-22 18:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Interesting.
http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/date/2008/03/05
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2008/03/the-face-of-bac.html
When you get rid of the wig I think the painting is actually somewhat
accurate.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...