Discussion:
Any active classical vinyl collectors here?
(too old to reply)
NDM
2005-01-25 19:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
d***@andadv.com
2005-01-25 19:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Welcome Neil.

You'll find a few vinylholics here. I'm one. Most conversation revolves
around CD, of course. Me, I don't do much with "new reissue" classical
vinyl--too rich for my blood, usually--but you'll seldom see me pass up
a used bookstore or thrift store if there's a chance that
gently-preowned records may be ensconced therein. I now listen to both
LP and CD, but only fell off the pure-analog pedestal about 4 or 5
years back, mainly because I was discovering too much good stuff on CD
that would never be available on vinyl. The score in my collection now
stands at about 3,000 or so LPs (exclusively for the home systems) vs.
c.700 CDs (exclusively for play on the ancient boombox at work).
Cheers,

Dirk
Bob Lombard
2005-01-25 20:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
There are some 'resident vinylphiles' here. Don't know what (or if) you
should know about them. I don't count myself in that
fraternity/sorority/whatever-it-is, because my vinyl purchases are for the
purpose of making CD-Rs that sound better than CDs. Hah.

bl
Can Altinbay
2005-01-27 20:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Lombard
There are some 'resident vinylphiles' here. Don't know what (or if) you
should know about them. I don't count myself in that
fraternity/sorority/whatever-it-is, because my vinyl purchases are for the
purpose of making CD-Rs that sound better than CDs. Hah.
bl
Since my borother talked me into buying a minidisc recorder, I have started
to buy more classical music on LPs.
Stephen Worth
2005-01-25 21:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
I'm one of the "record fans"... I have about 4,000 LPs and twice that
in 78s. But I don't ascribe to the theory that vinyl inherently sounds
better than digital. It all depends on how it's mastered. There are
great sounding LPs and great sounding CDs.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-27 10:44:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by NDM
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
I'm one of the "record fans"... I have about 4,000 LPs and twice that
in 78s. But I don't ascribe to the theory that vinyl inherently sounds
better than digital. It all depends on how it's mastered. There are
great sounding LPs and great sounding CDs.
I've just this month come down with a recurrance of my mild but chronic case of
vinylphilia. Thanks to another rmcr person who had a need to hear some
Scriabin that is unavailable on CD and which I happened to have on vinyl, I
finally hooked up my turntable after years of letting it stand unused. And now
am having a great time rediscovering my modest, probably-less-than-1000-LP,
collection. Plus, I'm buying more. I'm utterly amazed that now I've got in my
clutches copies of things I'd only imagined hearing - Persichetti's four string
quartets and 9th symphony, for example. And on their way to me are more orders
from Dave Canfield's remarkable internet-based vinyl emporium. I'm finally
going to have in hand Ginastera's legendary Bomarzo. And Feighin playing
Medtner's 2nd Violin Sonata. And even a dk recommendation for the Ravel left-
hander (it better be good, dk, or else..). And most unbelievably, I'm finally
going to have a replacement for a Muza disc I picked up at the Montreal World's
Fair in 1967. I lost it decades ago in a move and have always wanted very much
to replace it. Not for the Penderecki Threnody that's on it (the first
recording of that piece, I think), or even for the wonderful Bacewicz Music for
Strings, Trumpets, and Percussion. I managed to replace those two items a long
time ago with what seems to be a Phillips LP partial reissue of the original
Muza. What I really wanted was Artur Malawski's Symphonic Studies for piano
and orchestra that was on the original release but not on the Phillips. Now
it's on the way and I'm excited - I really am amazed that this item would turn
up after all these years. I mean...Malawski? How many people have ever heard
even a note of his?

So, vinyl is worth it for me just in the realm hard to find music that's not on
CD.

And wow! I'd forgotten just how much more beautiful, elegant, and generally
human, analog sound can be over the reproduction from CDs. Unlike Steve, I
really do think vinyl does inherently sound better than CDs (even on my
somewhat low-end equipment). It's ultimately a matter of taste, I'm sure, but,
for myself, I've just never heard a CD that can convey certain aspects of
emotion in music via sound that vinyl can, particularly in the areas of
sweetness and tenderness and perhaps a sort of overall humaness. In my
experience, in spite of all the improvements in digital sound, there's still an
inescapable digitalness to it that in the long run has a weirdly dehumanizing
effect on the performance. I'll admit that some CDs are quite amazing
sonically on their own terms. I also am starting to transfer LPs to CD for
various reasons, not the least of which is convenience, so it's not as if I'm
an anti-CD fanatic. But, you know, I've never felt that I really cherish a CD
in the same way that I feel for some vinyl recordings (or even cassettes, for
that matter). In a funny way, CDs don't seem to matter as much. Some people
say that feeling is based on the fact that LPs just have a lot more physical
presence as objects, but I don't think it's as simple as that. I think it's
related to how they sound, too.

wr
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-27 15:37:02 UTC
Permalink
And most unbelievably, I'm finally going to have a replacement for a Muza
disc I picked up at the Montreal World's Fair in 1967. I lost it decades
ago in a move and have always wanted very much to replace it. Not for
the Penderecki Threnody that's on it (the first recording of that piece,
I think), or even for the wonderful Bacewicz Music for Strings, Trumpets,
and Percussion. I managed to replace those two items a long time ago
with what seems to be a Phillips LP partial reissue of the original Muza.
What I really wanted was Artur Malawski's Symphonic Studies for piano and
orchestra that was on the original release but not on the Phillips. Now
it's on the way and I'm excited - I really am amazed that this item would
turn up after all these years. I mean...Malawski? How many people have
ever heard even a note of his?
Hmm, I think I once had that Philips LP. It was, unfortunately, one of the
American pressings, but I remember the Bacewicz was enjoyable.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
d***@aol.com
2005-01-25 22:10:36 UTC
Permalink
I collect LP's the contents of which look promising that haven't been
reissued on CD. I prefer to have them transferred--declicked--to CD.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-25 23:28:05 UTC
Permalink
"***@aol.com" <***@aol.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:1106691036.361524.19000
Post by d***@aol.com
I collect LP's the contents of which look promising that haven't been
reissued on CD. I prefer to have them transferred--declicked--to CD.
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan to buy
the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about $100 on eBay.
Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa hee hee...!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-26 05:25:34 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan to buy
the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about $100 on eBay.
Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa hee hee...!
I'm sure one of these http://tinyurl.com/6qgps would sound much better than
the Terratec. And you need one of these http://tinyurl.com/4tjzv or these
http://tinyurl.com/6z9w4 instead of that tired old refurbished job.

I don't have any connection to the website linked above or those manufacturers,
other than having fun browsing and being utterly amazed at how much of this
sort of thing is out there.

wr
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-26 07:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
<...>
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan to
buy the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about $100
on eBay. Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa hee
hee...!
I'm sure one of these http://tinyurl.com/6qgps would sound much better
than the Terratec. And you need one of these http://tinyurl.com/4tjzv
or these http://tinyurl.com/6z9w4 instead of that tired old refurbished
job.
I don't have any connection to the website linked above or those
manufacturers, other than having fun browsing and being utterly amazed
at how much of this sort of thing is out there.
I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early gift
for my birthday. Do I also get the condo in Brentwood?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
x***@hotmail.com
2005-01-26 07:56:34 UTC
Permalink
<<I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early
gift for my birthday.>>

I would like to at least try out once these jewels. It won't happen
anytime soon, I'm afraid.

regards,
SG
Bob Harper
2005-01-26 15:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by x***@hotmail.com
<<I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early
gift for my birthday.>>
I would like to at least try out once these jewels. It won't happen
anytime soon, I'm afraid.
regards,
SG
Well, to get 99.999999999999% of the performance for a small fraction of
the money, find yourself a Thorens 125 in good condition, add a decent
arm, cartridge, mat, and record clamp, and you're there.

Bob Harper
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-27 07:13:52 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@207.217.125.201>, oyþ@earthlink.net
says...
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Wayne Reimer
<...>
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan to
buy the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about $100
on eBay. Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa hee
hee...!
I'm sure one of these http://tinyurl.com/6qgps would sound much better
than the Terratec. And you need one of these http://tinyurl.com/4tjzv
or these http://tinyurl.com/6z9w4 instead of that tired old refurbished
job.
I don't have any connection to the website linked above or those
manufacturers, other than having fun browsing and being utterly amazed
at how much of this sort of thing is out there.
I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early gift
for my birthday. Do I also get the condo in Brentwood?
But, I thought you just moved, and besides, isn't Brentwood sort of, you know,
faux-newvo?

Anyway, let us know what you think of the Terratec when you've tried it out - I
was eyeing it a few months ago as a way to get some of my vinyl to CD. I have
worked out a different solution, but am still curious about it.

wr
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-27 08:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Wayne Reimer
<...>
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan
to buy the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about
$100 on eBay. Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa
hee hee...!
I'm sure one of these http://tinyurl.com/6qgps would sound much
better than the Terratec. And you need one of these
http://tinyurl.com/4tjzv or these http://tinyurl.com/6z9w4 instead of
that tired old refurbished job.
I don't have any connection to the website linked above or those
manufacturers, other than having fun browsing and being utterly
amazed at how much of this sort of thing is out there.
I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early
gift for my birthday. Do I also get the condo in Brentwood?
But, I thought you just moved, and besides, isn't Brentwood sort of, you
know, faux-newvo?
It wasn't any sort of nouveau in the 60s, and I doubt it has changed since.
Post by Wayne Reimer
Anyway, let us know what you think of the Terratec when you've tried it
out - I was eyeing it a few months ago as a way to get some of my vinyl
to CD. I have worked out a different solution, but am still curious
about it.
Pray tell, what is your solution? I ask merely out of curiosity.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-29 05:25:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@207.217.125.201>, oyþ@earthlink.net
says...
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Wayne Reimer
<...>
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Same here. My turntable is finally out for refurbishing, and I plan
to buy the Terratec Phono Preamp USB, generally available for about
$100 on eBay. Then, try to stop me, Cary Sherman! hoo hoo haa haa
hee hee...!
I'm sure one of these http://tinyurl.com/6qgps would sound much
better than the Terratec. And you need one of these
http://tinyurl.com/4tjzv or these http://tinyurl.com/6z9w4 instead of
that tired old refurbished job.
I don't have any connection to the website linked above or those
manufacturers, other than having fun browsing and being utterly
amazed at how much of this sort of thing is out there.
I'm touched that you'd be willing to buy me such things as an early
gift for my birthday. Do I also get the condo in Brentwood?
But, I thought you just moved, and besides, isn't Brentwood sort of, you
know, faux-newvo?
It wasn't any sort of nouveau in the 60s, and I doubt it has changed since.
I'm probably thinking of a different one of dozens of ---woods then.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Wayne Reimer
Anyway, let us know what you think of the Terratec when you've tried it
out - I was eyeing it a few months ago as a way to get some of my vinyl
to CD. I have worked out a different solution, but am still curious
about it.
Pray tell, what is your solution? I ask merely out of curiosity.
It's an embarassingly Rube Goldbergian arrangement that I threw together on the
fly with stuff I had - a cheap phono stage which leads to an aux on a preamp
whose outs go to a mixer whose outs go to an Gina24 audio card whose converted
digital gets recorded by SoundForge to a hard drive where breakdown into
individual files and some audio cleanup can happen and finally to CD burning
software for the CD-R burn. Hey, it works and sounds not so bad, considering
that I originally got all the pieceparts to do other stuff. I hope to work
out a more direct method in the next few months.

wr
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-29 07:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Pray tell, what is your solution? I ask merely out of curiosity.
It's an embarassingly Rube Goldbergian arrangement that I threw together
on the fly with stuff I had - a cheap phono stage which leads to an aux
on a preamp whose outs go to a mixer whose outs go to an Gina24 audio
card whose converted digital gets recorded by SoundForge to a hard drive
where breakdown into individual files and some audio cleanup can happen
and finally to CD burning software for the CD-R burn. Hey, it works and
sounds not so bad, considering that I originally got all the pieceparts
to do other stuff. I hope to work out a more direct method in the next
few months.
I was going to use a preamp into an Edirol widget, but I'm excited at the
prospect of using the Terratec device. My turntable is still in the shop
(the guy hasn't gotten back to me with the estimate, so I'm going to give
him a nudge on Monday), but once I've gotten the anatidae aligned there
will be some serious transferring done.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Steve Emerson
2005-01-29 19:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
It's an embarassingly Rube Goldbergian arrangement that I threw together on
the fly with stuff I had - a cheap phono stage which leads to an aux on a
preamp whose outs go to a mixer
Question: for recording, why not direct from phono stage to mixer?

Also, the mixer: for EQ purposes, or...? Because no RCA ins on audio card
(seems unlikely)?
Post by Wayne Reimer
whose outs go to an Gina24 audio card whose
converted digital gets recorded by SoundForge to a hard drive where
breakdown into individual files and some audio cleanup can happen and
finally to CD burning software for the CD-R burn. Hey, it works and sounds
not so bad, considering that I originally got all the pieceparts to do
other stuff. I hope to work out a more direct method in the next few
months.
SE.
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-30 02:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
It's an embarassingly Rube Goldbergian arrangement that I threw together on
the fly with stuff I had - a cheap phono stage which leads to an aux on a
preamp whose outs go to a mixer
Question: for recording, why not direct from phono stage to mixer?
Also, the mixer: for EQ purposes, or...? Because no RCA ins on audio card
(seems unlikely)?
All of it was really because of cabling/connectors that I happened to have on
hand. Yeah, I know, it's terrible excuse, and it will get fixed soon.

But yes, the card has only 1/4 in. jacks (or optical, or coax SPIF) but no
RCAs, and yes, you guessed right, the mixer does have a tape in that takes
RCAs. Running the phono stage through the preamp does have the advantage of
letting me easily switch to just plain old listening mode through my "good"
speakers and amp when I'm not messing around with CD transfers.

wr
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
whose outs go to an Gina24 audio card whose
converted digital gets recorded by SoundForge to a hard drive where
breakdown into individual files and some audio cleanup can happen and
finally to CD burning software for the CD-R burn. Hey, it works and sounds
not so bad, considering that I originally got all the pieceparts to do
other stuff. I hope to work out a more direct method in the next few
months.
Steve Emerson
2005-01-30 21:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Steve Emerson
Question: for recording, why not direct from phono stage to mixer?
Also, the mixer: for EQ purposes, or...? Because no RCA ins on audio card
(seems unlikely)?
All of it was really because of cabling/connectors that I happened to have on
hand. Yeah, I know, it's terrible excuse, and it will get fixed soon.
But yes, the card has only 1/4 in. jacks (or optical, or coax SPIF)
SP/DIF in case you care...
Post by Wayne Reimer
but no
RCAs, and yes, you guessed right, the mixer does have a tape in that takes
RCAs.
As an aid to motivation: Radio Shack part 274-893 is a 1/4" stereo plug with
two RCA jacks on the other end: a one-piece adapter. $3.99. Be sure not to get
the version with 1/4" mono plug.

Cleaner still would be to cut the ends off an interconnect and solder on your
own 1/4" stereo plug. However, I'm told that not everybody enjoys soldering.
Post by Wayne Reimer
Running the phono stage through the preamp does have the advantage of
letting me easily switch to just plain old listening mode through my "good"
speakers and amp when I'm not messing around with CD transfers.
Noted; this is mostly what I do as well, although don't tell anybody.

SE.
Bob Lombard
2005-01-30 22:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
Running the phono stage through the preamp does have the advantage of
letting me easily switch to just plain old listening mode through my "good"
speakers and amp when I'm not messing around with CD transfers.
Noted; this is mostly what I do as well, although don't tell anybody.
SE.
Too late. Audiophiliacs around the world are flaring their nostrils.

bl
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-31 02:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Steve Emerson
Question: for recording, why not direct from phono stage to mixer?
Also, the mixer: for EQ purposes, or...? Because no RCA ins on audio card
(seems unlikely)?
All of it was really because of cabling/connectors that I happened to have on
hand. Yeah, I know, it's terrible excuse, and it will get fixed soon.
But yes, the card has only 1/4 in. jacks (or optical, or coax SPIF)
SP/DIF in case you care...
Oh, right (I've got a mental block on that acronym for some reason).
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
but no
RCAs, and yes, you guessed right, the mixer does have a tape in that takes
RCAs.
As an aid to motivation: Radio Shack part 274-893 is a 1/4" stereo plug with
two RCA jacks on the other end: a one-piece adapter. $3.99. Be sure not to get
the version with 1/4" mono plug.
Thanks. Will check Radio Shack out but I would need an RCA pair to two 1/4"
jacks, since the card (a breakout box attached to the card, actually) has a
jack for each channel. Here's a pic, if you are interested in what this
mysterious beastie looks like - http://tinyurl.com/67z5y
Post by Steve Emerson
Cleaner still would be to cut the ends off an interconnect and solder on your
own 1/4" stereo plug. However, I'm told that not everybody enjoys soldering.
I think the last time I soldered anything was around forty years back, and,
IIRC, it wasn't particularly unpleasant. But, not having the equipment or
experience, I'll probably stick with prefab stuff.
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Wayne Reimer
Running the phono stage through the preamp does have the advantage of
letting me easily switch to just plain old listening mode through my "good"
speakers and amp when I'm not messing around with CD transfers.
Noted; this is mostly what I do as well, although don't tell anybody.
SE.
Steve Emerson
2005-01-31 04:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Steve Emerson
As an aid to motivation: Radio Shack part 274-893 is a 1/4" stereo plug
with two RCA jacks on the other end: a one-piece adapter. $3.99. Be sure
not to get the version with 1/4" mono plug.
Thanks. Will check Radio Shack out but I would need an RCA pair to two 1/4"
jacks, since the card (a breakout box attached to the card, actually) has a
jack for each channel. Here's a pic, if you are interested in what this
mysterious beastie looks like - http://tinyurl.com/67z5y
Yes, I see. That box looks like a good idea, it may be better for the A/D to
happen outside the computer.

The Radio Shack part for the above, RCA jack to 1/4" mono plug, sells at 2 for
$3.49.

SE.
Allen
2005-01-31 15:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Wayne Reimer wrote:

<snip>
Post by Wayne Reimer
I think the last time I soldered anything was around forty years back, and,
IIRC, it wasn't particularly unpleasant. But, not having the equipment or
experience, I'll probably stick with prefab stuff.
I too don't enjoy soldering that much, and it's been a long time since
I've done any, though many years ago I built or modified most of my own
equipment. There is a new soldering iron on the market, though, that I
plan to buy just to have on hand for emergencies. It runs on AA
batteries(!) and works by using the resistance of the materials being
soldered to generate heat. Amazingly, this thing has gotten good
reviews, including from PC Magazine. No wire, no preheating, and
apparently under $20. I have no connection with the makers or sellers
of this thing.
Allen
Tom Deacon
2005-01-25 23:21:45 UTC
Permalink
On 1/25/05 5:10 PM, in article
Post by d***@aol.com
I collect LP's the contents of which look promising that haven't been
reissued on CD. I prefer to have them transferred--declicked--to CD.
Declicking may or may not be necessary. That will depend upon the condition
of your LPs. Most of mine are mint and very listenable.

I have just acquired the complete Gunnar Johansen Bach, Busoni and Liszt LPs
from his estate. We were informed that they were being sold off at $1.00 per
LP a few months ago. I acted and they have just arrived.

None has ever been reissued on CD, and unless some brave soul manages to
acquire the master tapes, they probably never will.

TD
mdhjwh
2005-01-26 04:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
On 1/25/05 5:10 PM, in article
Post by d***@aol.com
I collect LP's the contents of which look promising that haven't been
reissued on CD. I prefer to have them transferred--declicked--to CD.
Declicking may or may not be necessary. That will depend upon the condition
of your LPs. Most of mine are mint and very listenable.
I have just acquired the complete Gunnar Johansen Bach, Busoni and Liszt LPs
from his estate. We were informed that they were being sold off at $1.00 per
LP a few months ago. I acted and they have just arrived.
None has ever been reissued on CD, and unless some brave soul manages to
acquire the master tapes, they probably never will.
Many master tapes of that era are in unplayable condition. Most
probably the LP's you have ARE the new masters. However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
Think of starting a new business- I'm already on your customer list.
R***@aol.com
2005-01-26 06:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
This is the problem with some of the grey area transfers. I recently
bought some Scherchen dubs from a reputable outfit and though they have
been decently declicked the playback gear they used to extract the
sound from the grooves hardly began to capture the dynamic range or
color that vinyl is capable of providing. Old dusty copes that I found
second hand were more vibrant and interesting on my marginally more
recent but at least wide-band gear. IMO
mdhjwh
2005-01-26 08:45:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@aol.com
Post by mdhjwh
However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
This is the problem with some of the grey area transfers. I recently
bought some Scherchen dubs from a reputable outfit and though they have
been decently declicked the playback gear they used to extract the
sound from the grooves hardly began to capture the dynamic range or
color that vinyl is capable of providing. Old dusty copes that I found
second hand were more vibrant and interesting on my marginally more
recent but at least wide-band gear. IMO
I agree with your findings but suggest a cause in addition to
sub-standard replay gear. I've yet to hear a de-clicking program that
was tranparent and didn't bleach the life out of vinyl. For
non-classical percussive music this isn't so much of a problem but when
micro-dynamic expression and subtle tonality ie:- upper violin tones,
are an important part of the music, de-clicking is deadly.
Stephen Worth
2005-01-26 08:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
I've yet to hear a de-clicking program that
was tranparent and didn't bleach the life out of vinyl.
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances in digital
declicking tools. The one I use in Spark XL is totally transparent. The
trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection of super high
frequency information to identify clicks as opposed to program
material; then applying the filtering to just the fraction of a second
that the click occupies and no more.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
mdhjwh
2005-01-26 09:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by mdhjwh
I've yet to hear a de-clicking program that
was tranparent and didn't bleach the life out of vinyl.
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances in
digital
Post by Stephen Worth
declicking tools. The one I use in Spark XL is totally transparent. The
trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection of super high
frequency information to identify clicks as opposed to program
material; then applying the filtering to just the fraction of a second
that the click occupies and no more.
If your correct, is there a Mac version available? Does the 'applying
the filtering to just the fraction of a second that the click occupies
and no more' occur automatically or is it accoplished through manual
selection?
Are we getting off topic? This is supposed to be about the music, not
the technology. Never mind we might all learn something that helps us
enjoy the music.
R***@aol.com
2005-01-26 09:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
Are we getting off topic? This is supposed to be about the music, not
the technology. Never mind we might all learn something that helps us
enjoy the music.
Not at all. For some old recordings, these suppliers are going to be
the only source left.
Stephen Worth
2005-01-26 18:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
If your correct, is there a Mac version available? Does the 'applying
the filtering to just the fraction of a second that the click occupies
and no more' occur automatically or is it accoplished through manual
selection?
Spark XL is for the Mac. Unfortunately, it's not being distributed any
more. The click elimination is all automatic. I've heard the declicker
in Sound Soap Pro is just as good, but I haven't had a chance to try it
yet. That is available for the Mac too.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-26 11:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is totally.The
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as opposed
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the fraction
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's acoustically "dead"
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the ultrasonic information
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
R***@aol.com
2005-01-26 12:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the ultrasonic information
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
Admirable criteria.

The grey market copies I bought were dubs made with a Thorens 124/SME
arm and Shure cartridge. A classic late 1960s-style rig that has been
vastly improved, along the lines you detail.
Tom Deacon
2005-01-26 14:32:29 UTC
Permalink
On 1/26/05 7:04 AM, in article
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by William Sommerwerck
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the ultrasonic
information
Post by William Sommerwerck
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
Admirable criteria.
The grey market copies I bought were dubs made with a Thorens 124/SME
arm and Shure cartridge. A classic late 1960s-style rig that has been
vastly improved, along the lines you detail.
Another word for such equipment might be "antique". Anyone who is using such
gear to make transfers of old LPs might as well suggest listening to his old
Caruso 78s on equipment of Caruso's day.

This is a "grey" market in the true meaning of the word.

TD
Stephen Worth
2005-01-26 18:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Another word for such equipment might be "antique". Anyone who is using such
gear to make transfers of old LPs might as well suggest listening to his old
Caruso 78s on equipment of Caruso's day.
That's not a good analogy, because anyone with a Victor VV-XVI will
tell you that the sound of acoustic playback of acoustic recordings
is rarely matched by electronic transcription, even the most modern
digital restorations.

Back in Caruso's day, the manufacturer of the phonograph also produced
the recordings to play on it. They were able to make the phonographs to
complement the limitations of the recordings and vice versa. Every
company had its own acoustic lab where they experimented with different
designs. They knew what they were doing.

There are several psycho acoustic principles at work in acoustic
reproduction that enhance the sound in ways that modern stereo systems
just can't match. Every weekend, I take my suitcase Victrola out to a
local Starbucks and play records. I once had someone peek around the
corner while I was playing a Caruso record. The person told me that he
was checking to see who was singing. He didn't even realize that it was
a recording.

If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Tom Deacon
2005-01-26 22:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I have and it does.

The more I read, the more I am convinced you live in a dream world of your
own creation.

I am sure you find it fascinating.

Of course.

TD
Stephen Worth
2005-01-27 00:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I have and it does.
Now I know you're all bluff! You flat out don't know what you're
talking about. You just figure you can buffalo your way through
regardless of how little you know about the subject.

Acoustic records sound scratchy and faint on *electric* turntables. But
when I play Caruso's M'appari on my Victrola there is no surface noise,
and you can hear it a block away. Feel free to ask my neighbors and
anyone who has attended one of my Victrola concerts how scratchy and
faint an acoustic phonograph sounds!

Here's my tip for the day...

If you listened to other people instead of just speaking at them, you
might find out interesting things that you didn't know before. Usenet
is wonderful for learning and sharing with other people. But learning
and sharing goes two ways, not just one. It's not enough to just be
smart or knowledgeable about certain things. You need to be wise enough
to know where your own knowledge leaves off and someone else's picks
up.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Richard Loeb
2005-01-27 01:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Steve - don't waste your time - of course 78s played on the proper equipment
have an impact that is lost on LP - I have heard them (and I had them). This
guys "curmudgeon of the newsgroup" act got very old with me very quickly
and I killfiled him - life is too short to waste it on people who will not
hear and who think every recording engineer is above reproach or comment
(obviously he never heard the dreadful EMI Callas Edition CDs) but why
bother - I have already spent too much of my valuable time on this


Best Richard
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I have and it does.
Now I know you're all bluff! You flat out don't know what you're
talking about. You just figure you can buffalo your way through
regardless of how little you know about the subject.
Acoustic records sound scratchy and faint on *electric* turntables. But
when I play Caruso's M'appari on my Victrola there is no surface noise,
and you can hear it a block away. Feel free to ask my neighbors and
anyone who has attended one of my Victrola concerts how scratchy and
faint an acoustic phonograph sounds!
Here's my tip for the day...
If you listened to other people instead of just speaking at them, you
might find out interesting things that you didn't know before. Usenet
is wonderful for learning and sharing with other people. But learning
and sharing goes two ways, not just one. It's not enough to just be
smart or knowledgeable about certain things. You need to be wise enough
to know where your own knowledge leaves off and someone else's picks
up.
See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Tom Deacon
2005-01-27 11:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Loeb
Steve - don't waste your time - of course 78s played on the proper equipment
have an impact that is lost on LP - I have heard them (and I had them). This
guys "curmudgeon of the newsgroup" act got very old with me very quickly
and I killfiled him - life is too short to waste it on people who will not
hear and who think every recording engineer is above reproach or comment
(obviously he never heard the dreadful EMI Callas Edition CDs) but why
bother - I have already spent too much of my valuable time on this
I agree with you, Richard.

Just turn your brain off and go back to sleep.

TD
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-27 08:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I have and it does.
Now I know you're all bluff! You flat out don't know what you're
talking about. You just figure you can buffalo your way through
regardless of how little you know about the subject.
Acoustic records sound scratchy and faint on *electric* turntables. But
when I play Caruso's M'appari on my Victrola there is no surface noise,
and you can hear it a block away. Feel free to ask my neighbors and
anyone who has attended one of my Victrola concerts how scratchy and
faint an acoustic phonograph sounds!
Here's my tip for the day...
If you listened to other people instead of just speaking at them, you
might find out interesting things that you didn't know before. Usenet
is wonderful for learning and sharing with other people. But learning
and sharing goes two ways, not just one. It's not enough to just be
smart or knowledgeable about certain things. You need to be wise enough
to know where your own knowledge leaves off and someone else's picks
up.
For whatever it's worth, Steve, exactly a week ago on the 19th, Premise Checker
posted an article from the WSJ here in rmcr that backs up your statement about
the unscratchyness of HIP acoustic reproduction.

wr
Tom Deacon
2005-01-27 11:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I have and it does.
Now I know you're all bluff! You flat out don't know what you're
talking about. You just figure you can buffalo your way through
regardless of how little you know about the subject.
I was listening to 78 RPM records on acoustical equipment before your mother
even had the faintest glimmer that she wanted to give birth.

You're just a trifle wet-behind-the-ears, Steve.

TD
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-27 13:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint,
you haven't heard an acoustic phonograph.
I'm no fan of acoustic recording, but the Nimbus "Prima Voce" recordings show
what can be done when acoustic recordings are played back "properly."
Tom Deacon
2005-01-27 14:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint,
you haven't heard an acoustic phonograph.
I'm no fan of acoustic recording, but the Nimbus "Prima Voce" recordings show
what can be done when acoustic recordings are played back "properly."
Those same recordings have also been largely trashed by the musical press.

Apparently it depends upon one's "taste". Yet again.

TD
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-27 15:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
If you think acoustic phonographs sound scratchy and faint, you haven't
heard an acoustic phonograph.
I'm no fan of acoustic recording, but the Nimbus "Prima Voce" recordings
show what can be done when acoustic recordings are played back
"properly."
By extreme counterexample, that is. Some of us think they are awful.
That's why I call them "Pseudo Voce"!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Mitchell Kaufman
2005-01-28 07:33:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Acoustic records sound scratchy and faint on *electric* turntables. But
when I play Caruso's M'appari on my Victrola there is no surface noise,
and you can hear it a block away.
Could it be that there is no surface noise because the Victrola has a
very narrow frequency response--one close to the frequency response of
the actual recording?

As for hearing it a block away, can't you hear *anything* a block away
if you turn up the volume enough?

Just asking, mind you.

MK
Stephen Worth
2005-01-28 09:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitchell Kaufman
Could it be that there is no surface noise because the Victrola has a
very narrow frequency response--one close to the frequency response of
the actual recording?
It's partly that, and partly that transient clicks are smoothed over by
the way the mica diaphragm vibrates.
Post by Mitchell Kaufman
As for hearing it a block away, can't you hear *anything* a block away
if you turn up the volume enough?
Victrolas have no volume control. They play at the volume they were
recorded at. Edison had a mechanical mute in its Diamond Disk machine,
but the only way to adjust the volume on a Victrola is to close the
doors covering the horn.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
mdhjwh
2005-01-28 22:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Victrolas have no volume control. They play at the volume they were
recorded at. Edison had a mechanical mute in its Diamond Disk
machine,
Post by Stephen Worth
but the only way to adjust the volume on a Victrola is to close the
doors covering the horn.
A yes, the Swell Box.........wonderful invention.
mdhjwh
2005-01-27 03:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is
totally.The
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as opposed
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the
fraction
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the ultrasonic information
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires' Turntable
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo, Decca
'London' (Gorrott re-build) for mono. That do?
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-27 07:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is
totally.The
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as opposed
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the
fraction
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the ultrasonic
information
Post by William Sommerwerck
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires' Turntable
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo, Decca
'London' (Gorrott re-build) for mono. That do?
Probably not. Nothing will ever really do ever again, once you get to the
point of naming equipment with pride. It's just a long downward spiral of
escalating expense and engineering esoterica that won't stop until you die or
run out of money, whichever comes first.

wr
mdhjwh
2005-01-27 09:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is
totally.The
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and detection
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as opposed
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the
fraction
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the
ultrasonic
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
information
Post by William Sommerwerck
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires' Turntable
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo, Decca
'London' (Gorrott re-build) for mono. That do?
Probably not. Nothing will ever really do ever again, once you get to the
point of naming equipment with pride. It's just a long downward spiral of
escalating expense and engineering esoterica that won't stop until you die or
run out of money, whichever comes first.
I'm not 'naming equipment with pride' but citing examples of scientific
method and logical engineering practice manifest in particular examples
. I'm not sure I understand your perspective on this. The reproduction
of what's so often hidden in those little vinyl groves does not involve
anything esoteric, just valid engineering logic properly
implemented.The care & expense is more than justified if our only
source of a performance is on LP and it can be transfered to
commercialy available CD. Short of that producing a few CD-R's for
fellow musicians/students can't be a waste of time. A sad truth about
many technologies is that when we finally discover what's really
required to do the job properly, it involves engineering that takes
silly money to produce. The is nothing to be gained by asserting that
the utmost care should not be taken in resurrecting the performances of
the past .
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-28 07:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is
totally.The
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and
detection
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as
opposed
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the
fraction
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the
ultrasonic
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
information
Post by William Sommerwerck
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires' Turntable
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo,
Decca
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
'London' (Gorrott re-build) for mono. That do?
Probably not. Nothing will ever really do ever again, once you get
to the
Post by Wayne Reimer
point of naming equipment with pride. It's just a long downward
spiral of
Post by Wayne Reimer
escalating expense and engineering esoterica that won't stop until
you die or
Post by Wayne Reimer
run out of money, whichever comes first.
I'm not 'naming equipment with pride' but citing examples of scientific
method and logical engineering practice manifest in particular examples
. I'm not sure I understand your perspective on this. The reproduction
of what's so often hidden in those little vinyl groves does not involve
anything esoteric, just valid engineering logic properly
implemented.The care & expense is more than justified if our only
source of a performance is on LP and it can be transfered to
commercialy available CD. Short of that producing a few CD-R's for
fellow musicians/students can't be a waste of time. A sad truth about
many technologies is that when we finally discover what's really
required to do the job properly, it involves engineering that takes
silly money to produce. The is nothing to be gained by asserting that
the utmost care should not be taken in resurrecting the performances of
the past .
It was the "that do?" that, to my reading of it, had a touch of pride. So,
you're not thinking of improving that system?

wr
mdhjwh
2005-01-28 22:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Paul Goldstein
In article
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
In the past year or so, there have been tremendous advances
in digital declicking tools.The one I use in Spark XL is
totally.The
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
transparent trick is sophisticated transient analysis and
detection
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of super high frequency information to identify clicks as
opposed
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
to program material; then applying the filtering to just the
fraction
Post by William Sommerwerck
Post by Stephen Worth
of a second that the click occupies and no more.
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead"
Post by William Sommerwerck
and free of resonances, and a high sampling rate, so the
ultrasonic
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by Stephen Worth
information
Post by William Sommerwerck
isn't shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires'
Turntable
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by Stephen Worth
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo,
Decca
Post by Paul Goldstein
Post by Stephen Worth
'London' (Gorrott re-build) for mono. That do?
Probably not. Nothing will ever really do ever again, once you get
to the
Post by Paul Goldstein
point of naming equipment with pride. It's just a long downward
spiral of
Post by Paul Goldstein
escalating expense and engineering esoterica that won't stop until
you die or
Post by Paul Goldstein
run out of money, whichever comes first.
I'm not 'naming equipment with pride' but citing examples of
scientific
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
method and logical engineering practice manifest in particular examples
. I'm not sure I understand your perspective on this. The
reproduction
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
of what's so often hidden in those little vinyl groves does not involve
anything esoteric, just valid engineering logic properly
implemented.The care & expense is more than justified if our only
source of a performance is on LP and it can be transfered to
commercialy available CD. Short of that producing a few CD-R's for
fellow musicians/students can't be a waste of time. A sad truth about
many technologies is that when we finally discover what's really
required to do the job properly, it involves engineering that takes
silly money to produce. The is nothing to be gained by asserting that
the utmost care should not be taken in resurrecting the
performances of
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Stephen Worth
the past .
It was the "that do?" that, to my reading of it, had a touch of pride. So,
you're not thinking of improving that system?
Not until I have enough money to splurge on a Rockport "Sirius" . I'm
blissfully happy with the VPI/"Steelhead' combination. Apart from the
wonderful ergonomics the greatest benefit is that I now find myself,
99.9% of the time, simply enjoying the music and not bothering to put
on my audiophool hat to think about 'is this good enough'.
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-29 03:36:07 UTC
Permalink
<...>
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Wayne Reimer
It was the "that do?" that, to my reading of it, had a touch of
pride. So,
Post by Wayne Reimer
you're not thinking of improving that system?
Not until I have enough money to splurge on a Rockport "Sirius" . I'm
blissfully happy with the VPI/"Steelhead' combination. Apart from the
wonderful ergonomics the greatest benefit is that I now find myself,
99.9% of the time, simply enjoying the music and not bothering to put
on my audiophool hat to think about 'is this good enough'.
Sounds wonderful, and now I'm envious.

wr
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-27 13:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
Post by William Sommerwerck
This requires a wideband pickup, a turntable system that's
acoustically "dead" and free of resonances, and a high
sampling rate, so the ultrasonic information isn't
shaved off by the low-pass filter.
I'm using a Manley "Steehead" phono pre-amp. VPI 'Aires' Turntable
(with all the extras) Garrot 'Optim' FGS cartridge for stereo, Decca
'London' (Garrot re-build) for mono. That do?
I don't see that I'm qualified to pass judgement on your setup, but I lean
toward moving-coil pickups. (I do like Deccas, though.)

One way of telling whether you have a "good" setup (surface-noise-wise) is to
listen to the same recording on various systems. You'll discover that as you
move in the direction of wider bandwidth and fewer resonances, the pops and
clicks become sharper and shorter, and less noticeable. This is because they are
being "smeared" less.
mdhjwh
2005-01-28 08:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck
I don't see that I'm qualified to pass judgement on your setup, but I lean
toward moving-coil pickups. (I do like Deccas, though.)
One way of telling whether you have a "good" setup
(surface-noise-wise) is to
Post by William Sommerwerck
listen to the same recording on various systems. You'll discover that as you
move in the direction of wider bandwidth and fewer resonances, the pops and
clicks become sharper and shorter, and less noticeable. This is because they are
being "smeared" less.
Having lived with an obscene number of expensive, not so expensive and
temperamental moving coils for a number of decades you cannot imagine
my delight in discovering a moving magnet (although Garrot Bros call
the thing a 'dynamic coil") that for musicality trounces every Moving
coil I've listened to. This also has the additional benefit of removing
the need for a MC pre-amp stage, always the most difficult to design &
construct properly.
I accept what you say about about wider bandwidth and fewer resonances
(although I'm not so sure about the bandwidth part). Additionaly may I
suggest a more important design aspect in lowering surface noise is the
profile & polish of the stylus diamond. A vacuum LP cleaning machine is
of coarse the greatest aid to vinyl bliss, without one the battle is
lost before it's begun.
I'm wondering if all this isn't getting way too far off topic,,,,IE
music. Oh well, no-one can spank us over the web.
Paul Goldstein
2005-01-26 21:21:55 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, mdhjwh
says...
Post by mdhjwh
Post by R***@aol.com
Post by mdhjwh
However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
This is the problem with some of the grey area transfers. I recently
bought some Scherchen dubs from a reputable outfit and though they
have
Post by R***@aol.com
been decently declicked the playback gear they used to extract the
sound from the grooves hardly began to capture the dynamic range or
color that vinyl is capable of providing. Old dusty copes that I
found
Post by R***@aol.com
second hand were more vibrant and interesting on my marginally more
recent but at least wide-band gear. IMO
I agree with your findings but suggest a cause in addition to
sub-standard replay gear. I've yet to hear a de-clicking program that
was tranparent and didn't bleach the life out of vinyl. For
non-classical percussive music this isn't so much of a problem but when
micro-dynamic expression and subtle tonality ie:- upper violin tones,
are an important part of the music, de-clicking is deadly.
That's not my experience at all. Using Diamond Cut Millennium (recommended to
me, IIRC, by Steve Worth) on a Windows computer, declicking causes no detectable
musical loss whatsoever. The only shortcoming of its declicking programs is
that they sometimes leaves a few clicks uncorrected. Those have to be addressed
by hand, which is sometimes difficult to do because of the shape of the wave
form.

Where Diamond Cut fails is in de-noising. Its filters are seemingly quite
sophisticated, but I've yet to figure out how to use them without causing
substantial sound degradation. As far as I know, all desktop sound restoration
software programs have this problem to some degree.
--
Paul Goldstein
Stephen Worth
2005-01-26 22:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Goldstein
The only shortcoming of its declicking programs is
that they sometimes leaves a few clicks uncorrected. Those have to be
addressed by hand, which is sometimes difficult to do because of the
shape of the wave form.
It's easier to deal with the large pops that the declicker doesn't do a
good job on by cleaning them up by hand *before* you run the declicker.
Sometimes the declicker does a half assed job on the big pop and ends
up blunting and smearing it. When it's in its original state it can be
easier to just edit it out or smooth out the waveform by hand by
cutting and pasting or redrawing with the pencil tool. The more you do
it, the better you get at approximating what the waveform should look
like.
Post by Paul Goldstein
Where Diamond Cut fails is in de-noising. Its filters are seemingly quite
sophisticated, but I've yet to figure out how to use them without causing
substantial sound degradation. As far as I know, all desktop sound restoration
software programs have this problem to some degree.
I have a few tricks to make broadband noise filters work better. I do a
slight boost of the treble when I transfer to make the music stand out
over the noise at the very top. Then when I apply the noise filter as
my second-to-the-last step of restoration, I use it to accomplish my
high end roll off, smoothing out that hump and depressing the noise in
the frequencies above the range of the recording. As a last step, I use
a parametric equalizer to fine tune the EQ balance, testing on various
different speakers. I find if I do a slight boost to the hiss around
9-10khz at the very end, the recording sounds brighter and clearer,
even if there is no program in the 9-10khz range.

It's also important to have a very sophisticated dynamic element to the
filter. I find that Sound Soap is excellent at smoothly transitioning
filtering in and out as the program level gets quieter and louder.
However, the goal of filtering shouldn't be to remove all noise... it
should be to remove as much noise as possible without touching the
music. I ensure that I haven't set the filter too high by turning up
the monitor level very high and listening carefully to the most quiet
passages. If they sound clear and unmuffled at a boosted volume level,
the whole track will sound clear and unmuffled after filtering.

Sound restoration tools can be used well, and they can be used
ham-handedly. Ultimately, the quality of a transfer isn't because of
the quality of the equipment or of the tools. It's the judgement of the
fella with the ears making the adjustments.

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Mitchell Kaufman
2005-01-28 07:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
I agree with your findings but suggest a cause in addition to
sub-standard replay gear. I've yet to hear a de-clicking program that
was tranparent and didn't bleach the life out of vinyl. For
non-classical percussive music this isn't so much of a problem but when
micro-dynamic expression and subtle tonality ie:- upper violin tones,
are an important part of the music, de-clicking is deadly.
I'm generally vehemently opposed to any noise reduction schemes, but you
might want to check out RCA's mammoth 24-disc Duke Ellington Centennial
box set. For the 78-era material, engineer Steven Lasker used CEDAR
de-clicking, and the sides from 1927 to 1942 are incredibly vivid;
nothing appears to be lost on the high-end. (I omit the later wartime
material, which was transferred by another engineer.) Granted, we're not
talking about vinyl here.

One can even hear the high-pitched whistling on the 78 material from the
late '20's and early '30s. (It occurs toward the latter part of the
record--it plagues some classical discs of the period as well--and is a
result of a flaw in the mastering process, according to Ward Marston.)

If you wish to hear a smaller sampling of this material, there's a
wonderful box set of just the 1940-42 sides, called "Never No Lament,"
which preserves the work of Ellington's greatest band.

MK
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-28 10:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mitchell Kaufman
I'm generally vehemently opposed to any noise reduction schemes, but you
might want to check out RCA's mammoth 24-disc Duke Ellington Centennial
box set. For the 78-era material, engineer Steven Lasker used CEDAR
de-clicking, and the sides from 1927 to 1942 are incredibly vivid;
nothing appears to be lost on the high-end.
De-clicking does not cause a loss of high frequencies.

I've noticed that removing the clicks and pops from 78s has the subjective
effective of reducing the recording's apparent coloration -- it sounds more
natural.
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-27 07:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@aol.com
Post by mdhjwh
However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
This is the problem with some of the grey area transfers. I recently
bought some Scherchen dubs from a reputable outfit and though they have
been decently declicked the playback gear they used to extract the
sound from the grooves hardly began to capture the dynamic range or
color that vinyl is capable of providing. Old dusty copes that I found
second hand were more vibrant and interesting on my marginally more
recent but at least wide-band gear. IMO
I can't let it go by without pointing out that "grey area transfers" and
"reputable outfit" sets up an odd dissonance in my brain. Not that I'm
criticizing or anything...it's just sort of amusingly ironic that you've got a
complaint about them.

wr
Tom Deacon
2005-01-27 12:00:59 UTC
Permalink
On 1/27/05 2:46 AM, in article
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by R***@aol.com
Post by mdhjwh
However to reveal their
true value supurbly engineered analogue gear is required.
This is the problem with some of the grey area transfers. I recently
bought some Scherchen dubs from a reputable outfit and though they have
been decently declicked the playback gear they used to extract the
sound from the grooves hardly began to capture the dynamic range or
color that vinyl is capable of providing. Old dusty copes that I found
second hand were more vibrant and interesting on my marginally more
recent but at least wide-band gear. IMO
I can't let it go by without pointing out that "grey area transfers" and
"reputable outfit" sets up an odd dissonance in my brain. Not that I'm
criticizing or anything...it's just sort of amusingly ironic that you've got a
complaint about them.
Indeed.

TD
R***@aol.com
2005-01-27 12:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
I can't let it go by without pointing out that "grey area transfers" and
"reputable outfit" sets up an odd dissonance in my brain. Not that I'm
criticizing or anything...it's just sort of amusingly ironic that you've got a
complaint about them.
wr
Point taken. I was curious to sample their wares, though.
And I expect that I never will again.
Wayne Reimer
2005-01-28 08:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Reimer
Post by Wayne Reimer
I can't let it go by without pointing out that "grey area transfers"
and
Post by Wayne Reimer
"reputable outfit" sets up an odd dissonance in my brain. Not that
I'm
Post by Wayne Reimer
criticizing or anything...it's just sort of amusingly ironic that
you've got a
Post by Wayne Reimer
complaint about them.
wr
Point taken. I was curious to sample their wares, though.
And I expect that I never will again.
And I, if I came across something sufficiently tempting would still probably
buy grey market, too. For example, a CDed copy of a transcription disc of the
Bolet Prokofiev 2nd concerto broadcast that imprinted me forever back when I
was barely more than a tyke.

wr
mdhjwh
2005-01-25 23:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to
classical
Post by NDM
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
I don't call myself a vinylphile even though I have a collection of
something like 11,378 classical LP's.
Most of these were inherited from a record reviewer who listened to
them once then put them away.
I do discribe myself as an audiophile though (audiophool?) . Until CD
players sounded anything like as musical, on a revealing system, as the
best of analogue, I couldn't tolerate them. What does strike me as odd
though is the assertion I often encounter that all LP playback is
better than all CD playback. To my ears, great care,dedication and
silly amounts of money need to be spent on an LP playback system and
the means to clean the old black things before they can equal todays CD
players. All of this will soon become irrelevant as the MP3 generation
takes over the market and we are doomed to the hidious inferiority of
compessed media.
One aspect of todays classical CD recording that puzzles me is the
unbroken 80min performance. Some CD recordings run longer without a
break than any recitalist would dare inflict. Still we always have the
puase button.
I'd like to prattle on about high-end turntables , phono -pre-amps etc
but this isn't the place to do it.
I'll simply say that until I acquired a VPI "Airies" turntable and
Manley 'Steelhead' phono pre-amp I had no idea how astonishingly rich
and detailed LP's can be. However, never let us forget---it is
possible to make hidious recordings in any media.
m***@yahoo.com
2005-01-25 23:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
I don't call myself a vinylphile even though I have a collection of
something like 11,378 classical LP's.
A man after my own heart. You and others here are making me feel much
less neurotic than I probably actually am. I own roughly 2000 lps and
700 CDs, and most visitors to my home get one look at how my "office"
is dominated by shelves and stacks of lps and then look at my as if I
ought to be committed. Hearing from seemingly normal folk who own more
than I do is comforting.

And I think you're right on about the perennial vinyl vs CD argument.
CD players sounded terrible when they first hit the market, but have
made great strides in the past 5-10 years. Digital recording and
remastering made similar progress. Where once vinyl was much superior,
now one can say it's more a matter of the individual
recording/mastering/remastering rather than the format.

I still buy vinyl, but only when it is a) very very clean, b) very very
inexpensive and c) contains music that is not available in a decent
digital form.
Mad Dan
2005-01-26 01:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdhjwh
I don't call myself a vinylphile even though I have a collection of
something like 11,378 classical LP's.
"Something like 11,378 classical LPs"??? What's that then? 11,377?

Me, I like vinyl too - nothing to do with sound quality/audiophilia or
anything like that (living right next to a busy dual carriageway makes
all that somewhat academic anyway) - it's just that I consider playing
a vinyl album to be more of an "event" than playing a CD - which is
just pushing a button.

Does that make any sense, or should I be locked away?!

Oh, and another joy of LPs is you can watch them going round and round
- whoooo!
mdhjwh
2005-01-26 04:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mad Dan
Post by mdhjwh
I don't call myself a vinylphile even though I have a collection of
something like 11,378 classical LP's.
"Something like 11,378 classical LPs"??? What's that then? 11,377?
Something like means I haven't counted/ catalogued them all, yet.
Post by Mad Dan
Me, I like vinyl too - nothing to do with sound quality/audiophilia or
anything like that (living right next to a busy dual carriageway makes
all that somewhat academic anyway) - it's just that I consider
playing
Post by Mad Dan
a vinyl album to be more of an "event" than playing a CD - which is
just pushing a button.
Yes, that and the wondrous fact that libretti/cover notes are readable
on LP covers/inserts when a magnifying glass is required for most CD
notes. The art work on LP's in often a joy too. Instance the book that
accompanied the Mozart Figaro, Zauberflöte, Don Giovanni, Karl Böhm
boxed set on Deutsche Grammophon 2563 310/313: 2563 318/320: 2563
314/317S. A sad bi-product of this however, I,m now on the look-out
for, is the nasty habit of those who, replacing their LP's with CD
versions of the same recording, keep the LP notes and put the damned CD
ones in the LP before dumping them on the 2nd hand market
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
Post by Mad Dan
Oh, and another joy of LPs is you can watch them going round and round
- whoooo!
Either you are using warped LP's &/or aren't using a record clamp if
you can see them going round and round from your listening chair.
Either of which is an audiophool sin of the first order. However if you
really get turned on by all that you can buy a top loading CD player or
better still one of those ostentatious B & O virtical stackers with a
tranparent lid and watch them wiz around at astonishing speed . That
sould really get you exited.
Derek Haslam
2005-01-27 16:47:04 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Mad Dan
Me, I like vinyl too - nothing to do with sound
quality/audiophilia or anything like that (living right
next to a busy dual carriageway makes all that somewhat
academic anyway) - it's just that I consider playing a
vinyl album to be more of an "event" than playing a CD -
which is just pushing a button.
Does that make any sense, or should I be locked away?!
Oh, and another joy of LPs is you can watch them going
round and round - whoooo!
and you get decent notes (esp. with opera) which can be
read without eyestrain. I have the Solti 'Ring' on CD
but keep my vinyl boxes of the same recordings on hand
for the superb libretti and (IMHO) better translations
than the CD versions. (They left nearly all the stage
directions out of the latter too!)

Derek Haslam
--
__ __ __ __ __
/ \ | ||__ |__)/ | | |_ Derek Haslam:
\_\/ |__||__ | \\__ |__| __| Acorn/RISC OS Computer Enthusiast
\ Mastery of the rules is a pre-requisite for creatively breaking them.
William Sommerwerck
2005-01-27 23:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Haslam
and you get decent notes (esp. with opera) which can be
read without eyestrain. I have the Solti 'Ring' on CD
but keep my vinyl boxes of the same recordings on hand
for the superb libretti and (IMHO) better translations
than the CD versions. (They left nearly all the stage
directions out of the latter too!)
Not to mention that the Big Box of the Ring came with "Ring Resounding," which I
kept when I sold the LPs.
Steve Emerson
2005-01-26 00:00:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music.
I collect LPs and like analog sound very much. There are a few others here of
the same ilk; but not very many. If you have records you want to talk about
or ask about, I think that would be a good thing. There are plenty of people
here who will be familiar with them.

SE.
vinyl1
2005-01-26 00:09:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
Here I am. No CDs. About 3500 LPs.
Tom Deacon
2005-01-26 00:34:11 UTC
Permalink
On 1/25/05 7:09 PM, in article
Post by vinyl1
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
Here I am. No CDs. About 3500 LPs.
So. If I understand you correctly, all music-making stopped in about 1982.

A trifle limiting, I would suggest.

Couldn't you compromise, just a little?

TD
Stephen Worth
2005-01-26 02:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
So. If I understand you correctly, all music-making stopped in about 1982.
A trifle limiting, I would suggest.
I thought you said that classical music was dead!

See ya
Steve
--
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
20s Dance Bands - Swing - Opera - Classical - Vaudeville - Ragtime
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Tom Deacon
2005-01-26 12:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
So. If I understand you correctly, all music-making stopped in about 1982.
A trifle limiting, I would suggest.
I thought you said that classical music was dead!
You have a quote, perhaps?

TD
Larry Rinkel
2005-01-27 03:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
So. If I understand you correctly, all music-making stopped in about 1982.
A trifle limiting, I would suggest.
I thought you said that classical music was dead!
You have a quote, perhaps?
TD
You have certainly said that opera is dead:

"And whatever happened to the "voice of reason" in your quite little world
of
inner bliss, Steve?
Opera has been dead for decades. Some would even say a century.
But please, go ahead and deny the facts if you like.
And take another valium.
TD, 12/17/04

Recognize the style?
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-01-27 05:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Rinkel
"And whatever happened to the "voice of reason" in your quite little
world of inner bliss, Steve?
Opera has been dead for decades. Some would even say a century.
But please, go ahead and deny the facts if you like.
And take another valium.
TD, 12/17/04
Recognize the style?
Here's a citation: http://tinyurl.com/6xws3
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Larry Rinkel
2005-01-27 12:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Larry Rinkel
"And whatever happened to the "voice of reason" in your quite little
world of inner bliss, Steve?
Opera has been dead for decades. Some would even say a century.
But please, go ahead and deny the facts if you like.
And take another valium.
TD, 12/17/04
Recognize the style?
Here's a citation: http://tinyurl.com/6xws3
Thank you. I don't know how to do the citation thing.
Tom Deacon
2005-01-27 12:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Rinkel
Post by Tom Deacon
Post by Stephen Worth
Post by Tom Deacon
So. If I understand you correctly, all music-making stopped in about 1982.
A trifle limiting, I would suggest.
I thought you said that classical music was dead!
You have a quote, perhaps?
TD
"And whatever happened to the "voice of reason" in your quite little world
of
inner bliss, Steve?
Opera has been dead for decades. Some would even say a century.
But please, go ahead and deny the facts if you like.
And take another valium.
TD, 12/17/04
Recognize the style?
Absolutely.

And I still think that.

Thing is: you said I had declared classical music as dead.

Wrong. Big bag of wrong, Stevie.

TD
NDM
2005-01-27 21:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Wow! Thanks for all the replies! My wife has been ill in the hospital
this week so I haven't had much time to read through them all just yet.
But I will. It's great to know that there is still much interest in
analog. I'm not really an 'analog only' type but I must say that when it
comes to classical music I consider vinyl to be a form of therapy. Just
wonderful!
Before my wife fell ill early this week, I scored some good deals: about
15 classical LPs for about $10 US. I've only had time to clean and
listen to 2 of them.
Maybe when things settle down I'll list them and we can compare notes.
...If anyone would be interested in doing that.
Thank You,
Neil
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
mdhjwh
2005-01-27 21:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Wow! Thanks for all the replies! My wife has been ill in the hospital
this week so I haven't had much time to read through them all just
yet.
Post by NDM
But I will. It's great to know that there is still much interest in
analog. I'm not really an 'analog only' type but I must say that when
it
Post by NDM
comes to classical music I consider vinyl to be a form of therapy.
Just
Post by NDM
wonderful!
about
Post by NDM
15 classical LPs for about $10 US. I've only had time to clean and
listen to 2 of them.
Maybe when things settle down I'll list them and we can compare
notes.
Post by NDM
...If anyone would be interested in doing that.
Hope your wife is soon better Larry. When you talk of 'comparing notes'
is it the music itself you want to discuss or the cleaning process? I'm
happy to do both although others here are more able to discuss
performance values than me. However when it comes to cleaning vinyl I'm
the expert so do ask if you have questions on such esoterica as LP
cleaning liquid you can make yourself , vacuum LP cleaning machines etc.
NDM
2005-01-28 06:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Thank You for the kind regards regarding my wife. I meant anything
pertaining to LPs. Performances, Technical talk, etc. I am interested in
you homeade cleaing solution. I have a Record Doctor vacuum now that I
bought 10 years ago. Stills works wonders! It has been worth every
penny. I use cheap cleaning solution[I bought .5 gallons of it a while
back] which has always worked well but I've always wanted to experiment.
Thank You,
Neil
Post by mdhjwh
Hope your wife is soon better Larry. When you talk of 'comparing notes'
is it the music itself you want to discuss or the cleaning process? I'm
happy to do both although others here are more able to discuss
performance values than me. However when it comes to cleaning vinyl I'm
the expert so do ask if you have questions on such esoterica as LP
cleaning liquid you can make yourself , vacuum LP cleaning machines etc.
mdhjwh
2005-01-28 08:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Thank You for the kind regards regarding my wife. I meant anything
pertaining to LPs. Performances, Technical talk, etc. I am interested in
you homeade cleaing solution. I have a Record Doctor vacuum now that I
bought 10 years ago. Stills works wonders! It has been worth every
penny. I use cheap cleaning solution[I bought .5 gallons of it a while
back] which has always worked well but I've always wanted to
experiment.

For your Record Doctor use:-
80% distilled water
10% Isopropyl alcohol
To each litre of this solution add:-
10 drops Kodak "Photoflow" (read the safely instructions)
10 drops window cleaner (Windex over here in Oz)
Some so called expert chemists will warn you off isopropyl alcohol
claiming it 'dissolves vinyl'
Pay no atention!!!, To accomplish this you would have to leave your
precious LP's in a solution of pure isopropyl alcohol overnight to have
any effect.
Use with cross flow ventilation and stand the LP's on their end for 2
mins before returning to their jackets.
NDM
2005-02-01 19:17:55 UTC
Permalink
Sorry that it took so long to get back to you.
Thanks for the tips! I bought a half gallon of 'Super Cleaner 2'
solution a number of years ago and I'm just finishing it up now.
Thank You,
Neil
Post by NDM
Post by NDM
Thank You for the kind regards regarding my wife. I meant anything
pertaining to LPs. Performances, Technical talk, etc. I am interested
in
Post by NDM
you homeade cleaing solution. I have a Record Doctor vacuum now that
I
Post by NDM
bought 10 years ago. Stills works wonders! It has been worth every
penny. I use cheap cleaning solution[I bought .5 gallons of it a
while
Post by NDM
back] which has always worked well but I've always wanted to
experiment.
For your Record Doctor use:-
80% distilled water
10% Isopropyl alcohol
To each litre of this solution add:-
10 drops Kodak "Photoflow" (read the safely instructions)
10 drops window cleaner (Windex over here in Oz)
Some so called expert chemists will warn you off isopropyl alcohol
claiming it 'dissolves vinyl'
Pay no atention!!!, To accomplish this you would have to leave your
precious LP's in a solution of pure isopropyl alcohol overnight to have
any effect.
Use with cross flow ventilation and stand the LP's on their end for 2
mins before returning to their jackets.
Joseph Vitale
2005-01-28 05:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
I don't have many LPs (perhaps a hundred or two) but I do keep them and
actively use them to supplement my much larger CD collection.

I have compared many original vinyl issues with their CD counterparts and
it is not a given that I will automatically favor one medium over the other

There are many old LPs that I find shallow in sound and infinitely prefer
to listen to these performances via their CD reissue -and my turntable
stylus is a pretty good one. This category of vinyl pressing usually seems
to be old stereo EMI recordings, such as many of Klemperer's stereo LPs
from the late 50's and early 60's, which I often find lacking any kind of
bass or highs. I have found the first CD reissues from these sources to be
a distinct improvement over listening to the original vinyl records and the
most recent GROC releases marginally even better.

There are also some original digital recordings from the early 80's that I
find very cold and sharp-edged and which I prefer to listen from vinyl as
it softens up the sound a little (especially when run through my vintage
but rehabbed Dynaco ST-70 tube amplifier). This category of recordings are
often early 80's Decca digital releases that I sometimes find cold as a
cucumber.

There are some other vinyl records that I still keep simply for the cover
art (I find many DG cover designs to be a thing of beauty in and of
themselves) or, in other instances, I will keep old records for their liner
notes (many vinyl LP opera boxes had exquisitely prepared books
accompanying them).
NDM
2005-01-28 06:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Vitale
Post by NDM
Hello,
I'm new here. Are there any memebers who prefer to listen to classical
music on vinyl rather than cd? I listen to both myself but prefer analog
to digital sound when it comes to classical music. Are there any
resident vinylphiles on this group that I should know about?
Thank You,
Neil
I don't have many LPs (perhaps a hundred or two) but I do keep them and
actively use them to supplement my much larger CD collection.
I have compared many original vinyl issues with their CD counterparts and
it is not a given that I will automatically favor one medium over the other
There are many old LPs that I find shallow in sound
I don't care much for Columbias especially the re-issues on vinyl.


and infinitely prefer
Post by Joseph Vitale
to listen to these performances via their CD reissue -and my turntable
stylus is a pretty good one. This category of vinyl pressing usually seems
to be old stereo EMI recordings, such as many of Klemperer's stereo LPs
from the late 50's and early 60's, which I often find lacking any kind of
bass or highs. I have found the first CD reissues from these sources to be
a distinct improvement over listening to the original vinyl records and the
most recent GROC releases marginally even better.
There are also some original digital recordings from the early 80's that I
find very cold and sharp-edged and which I prefer to listen from vinyl
I avoid these at all costs. My motto is: "If I'm going to listen to
analog than I'm going to listen to total analog".

as
Post by Joseph Vitale
it softens up the sound a little (especially when run through my vintage
but rehabbed Dynaco ST-70 tube amplifier).
Great amp have one myself that I modified.


This category of recordings are
Post by Joseph Vitale
often early 80's Decca digital releases that I sometimes find cold as a
cucumber.
There are some other vinyl records that I still keep simply for the cover
art (I find many DG cover designs to be a thing of beauty in and of
themselves) or, in other instances, I will keep old records for their liner
notes (many vinyl LP opera boxes had exquisitely prepared books
accompanying them).
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