Discussion:
Borodin Symphony recommendations
(too old to reply)
Randy Lane
2011-08-24 13:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
( http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst ). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
Alan Cooper
2011-08-24 14:20:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to
recordings of the Borodin Symphonies (individually or
integrally)? I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin
Orchestral Works ( http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst ). I'm trying to
decide whether to open it or sell it while it is OOP and will
fetch a good return. While I find Jarvi recordings generally
serviceable, and the recorded sound is most always excellent
whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his readings rarely
get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have the
Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will
most certainly acquire it soon.
Ansermet would be ##2 and 3 (not #1). Excellent performances. For an almost
ideal basic Borodin collection, I recommend Decca's "The Essential Borodin":
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Borodin-Alexander/dp/B0000261KO.

Martinon's Sym #2 is fabulous (a "knock-out first choice" along with Kubelik's),
as is the Borodin SQ in the String Quartet #2. Ansermet's Sym #3 and "Steppes"
are almost as good, and Ashkenazy is at least on a par with Jarvi or anyone else
I've heard in Sym #1. (There is no k-ofc for that one, afaik.)

AC
Ed Presson
2011-08-24 15:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to
recordings of the Borodin Symphonies (individually or
integrally)? I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin
Orchestral Works ( http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst ). I'm trying to
decide whether to open it or sell it while it is OOP and will
fetch a good return. While I find Jarvi recordings generally
serviceable, and the recorded sound is most always excellent
whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his readings rarely
get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have the
Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will
most certainly acquire it soon.
Ansermet would be ##2 and 3 (not #1). Excellent performances. For an
almost
ideal basic Borodin collection, I recommend Decca's "The Essential Borodin":
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Borodin-Alexander/dp/B0000261KO.

Martinon's Sym #2 is fabulous (a "knock-out first choice" along with
Kubelik's),
as is the Borodin SQ in the String Quartet #2. Ansermet's Sym #3 and
"Steppes"
are almost as good, and Ashkenazy is at least on a par with Jarvi or anyone
else
I've heard in Sym #1. (There is no k-ofc for that one, afaik.)

AC

___________________

I strongly second Martinon's Symphony No. 2. The 2-CD set has other good
Borodin performance also; but the
Martinon performance is the highlight of the set.

Ed Presson
Gerard
2011-08-24 22:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Presson
I strongly second Martinon's Symphony No. 2. The 2-CD set has other
good Borodin performance also; but the
Martinon performance is the highlight of the set.
Indeed it is.
Remarkable is that recordings by a lot of well known Russian conductors are very
loss "white hot" than Martinon's.
Like those by Gergiev, Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky.
Roger Cole
2011-08-24 20:40:23 UTC
Permalink
Martinon's Sym #2 is fabulous (a "knock-out first choice" along with Kubelik's),>>
agreed, on both counts...
Paul Goldstein
2011-08-24 14:30:02 UTC
Permalink
In article <2ea3331e-75fa-4ff3-b33d-***@x14g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Randy Lane says...
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
( http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst ). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
Ansermet's Borodin is excellent, but my favorite recording of the 2nd Symphony
is
the one by Rafael Kubelik with the VPO on EMI.

For laughs, try to hear the Golovanov.
Matthew B. Tepper
2011-08-24 14:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Randy Lane <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:2ea3331e-75fa-4ff3-b33d-
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
For me, it's still Kubelik/VPO in #2 (variously on EMI).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
peter gutmann
2011-08-24 14:49:00 UTC
Permalink
May I refer you to my article on the Borodin Second at
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/borodin.html ? In it I survey
a number of recordings of that work. My top choices by far are
Golovanov and Coates.
M forever
2011-08-24 15:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
What you need is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VYDZU/

Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!

While you are at it, I would also check out:

http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-Box/dp/B00007E8M3/


Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.

http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/

But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.

Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003FO5/

These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.

So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
catman
2011-08-24 19:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
Matthew B. Tepper
2011-08-24 20:30:39 UTC
Permalink
catman <***@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:a6da7dd9-da6d-4620-ab81-
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the new
Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices -- in
fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will certainly
make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford to add both
Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on this one!
Hmmm, I had the Tjeknavorian on LP (a box, I believe?) and enjoyed it then,
but never bothered to follow up on the CD. Maybe I should....
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
"I don’t think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable
than left-wing social engineering. I don’t think imposing radical
change from the right or the left is a very good way for a free
society to operate. I think we need a national conversation to get
to a better Medicare system with more choices for seniors." Former
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich on "Meet the Press" 15 May 2011
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
M forever
2011-08-24 20:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.
peter gutmann
2011-08-24 21:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
M forever
2011-08-24 21:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by peter gutmann
Post by M forever
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
It's not just power I want - I want the full gamut, the fine detail as
well as the larger picture. I have the Golovanov recording and it is
certainly interesting for me as I collect recordings which document
Soviet orchestral culture, but it is, like pretty much everything I
have heard from Golovanov, pretty bizarre and musically nearly
worthless. Love the massive horn vibrato though. I saw your
recommendation and could only shake my head. That is a specialized
collector's item, not something one should recommend as a first
choice. Same for the Coates recording. That is only for specialized
collectors of early historic recordings. When you make
recommendations, you should think about what is right for the person
you make the recommendation to, not just showcase what a rare and
unusual collector you are.
peter gutmann
2011-08-24 22:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by peter gutmann
Post by M forever
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
It's not just power I want - I want the full gamut, the fine detail as
well as the larger picture. I have the Golovanov recording and it is
certainly interesting for me as I collect recordings which document
Soviet orchestral culture, but it is, like pretty much everything I
have heard from Golovanov, pretty bizarre and musically nearly
worthless. Love the massive horn vibrato though. I saw your
recommendation and could only shake my head. That is a specialized
collector's item, not something one should recommend as a first
choice. Same for the Coates recording. That is only for specialized
collectors of early historic recordings. When you make
recommendations, you should think about what is right for the person
you make the recommendation to, not just showcase what a rare and
unusual collector you are.
Different strokes for different folks, as they say ...

Historic performances have a special place in my affections,
especially since many of them perpetuate an era -- the same era in
which the Borodin and so much else of the 19th century repertoire was
written, I might add -- in which performers were expected to add their
own personal input in a partnership with a composer. Having enjoyed
classical music for 50+ years, I appreciate the unique touches of bold
artists like Golovanov. If you don't care for it, that's fine, but
I'm not just trying to "showcase what a rare and unusual collector [I]
am." Rather, I try to draw attention to items that might otherwise be
forgotten amid the routine renditions that have come to dominate
orchestral performance nowadays, quite possibly to the detriment of
authenticity. I hope that my recommendations are taken in the spirit
in which they are offered -- not to attempt to rank recordings as "the
best" bur rather to suggest the vast variety of interpretive scope
that a masterpiece admits.
M forever
2011-08-25 00:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by peter gutmann
Post by M forever
Post by peter gutmann
Post by M forever
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
It's not just power I want - I want the full gamut, the fine detail as
well as the larger picture. I have the Golovanov recording and it is
certainly interesting for me as I collect recordings which document
Soviet orchestral culture, but it is, like pretty much everything I
have heard from Golovanov, pretty bizarre and musically nearly
worthless. Love the massive horn vibrato though. I saw your
recommendation and could only shake my head. That is a specialized
collector's item, not something one should recommend as a first
choice. Same for the Coates recording. That is only for specialized
collectors of early historic recordings. When you make
recommendations, you should think about what is right for the person
you make the recommendation to, not just showcase what a rare and
unusual collector you are.
Different strokes for different folks, as they say ...
Exactly, and that's why I think you should take into consideration
what might be best as a recommendation for the person asking for one,
not just take that as an opportunity to show off what rare and unusual
items you know and have.
Post by peter gutmann
Historic performances have a special place in my affections,
especially since many of them perpetuate an era -- the same era in
which the Borodin and so much else of the 19th century repertoire was
written, I might add -- in which performers were expected to add their
own personal input in a partnership with a composer.
That's probably a little bit of a romantic cliché though. Sure, they
had some highly individual conductors back then, no doubt more so than
in recent decades, and much bigger differences between local
interpretation traditions, but they probably also had just as many
mediocre time beaters, as well as just plainly competent craftsmen.
Not every historical recording is a magical window into a better time.
Post by peter gutmann
 Having enjoyed
classical music for 50+ years, I appreciate the unique touches of bold
artists like Golovanov.  If you don't care for it, that's fine,
I do, for specific reasons, and I said so, so I don't understand this
response.
Post by peter gutmann
but
I'm not just trying to "showcase what a rare and unusual collector [I]
am."  Rather, I try to draw attention to items that might otherwise be
forgotten amid the routine renditions that have come to dominate
orchestral performance nowadays, quite possibly to the detriment of
authenticity.
See above. There are plenty of highly trained and motivated musicians
and conductors around today. Only because it's a recent
interpretation, that doesn't mean it's automatically "routine".
Post by peter gutmann
 I hope that my recommendations are taken in the spirit
in which they are offered -- not to attempt to rank recordings as "the
best" bur rather to suggest the vast variety of interpretive scope
that a masterpiece admits.
Then you should explain that in your recommendations, not just say "my
top choices by far". Remember, a good recommendation is one which
takes into account what might be the best choices for the person who
asks.
D***@aol.com
2011-08-24 22:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by peter gutmann
Post by M forever
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
I agree completely. I consider Golovanov's recorded performance
(circa 1947) essential listening for anyone interested in this work.
When I first heard it, I was astounded at the wide tempo and other
distentions: so different from what I knew from Mitropoulos, Martinon
(a good version), Kubelik, Malko, and others. Some might refuse to
accept Golovanov's interpretation; I think it is important to consider
it as an alternatively, completely personal, completely Russian view
of the work. As a performance, I have come to love it.

Don Tait
CharlesSmith
2011-08-24 22:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by peter gutmann
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
Power - yes. Potent - yes. Makes the others seem tepid - yes. Must hear it - yes.

But once is enough.

Charles
peter gutmann
2011-08-24 23:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by peter gutmann
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to yourself to
hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading, noted in my prior
comment (and described more fully in the article I referenced).
Whether or not it's idomatic, it's fabulous and makes every other
performance seem tepid by comparison, although it certainly shouldn't
be your only exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters have
recommended..
Power - yes. Potent - yes. Makes the others seem tepid - yes. Must  hear it - yes.
But once is enough.
Charles
Agreed! Much of the marvel of this performance (and others of its
type) is its spontaneity, which loses impact upon repeated hearings.
Alan Cooper
2011-08-25 19:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by CharlesSmith
Post by CharlesSmith
Post by peter gutmann
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to
yourself to hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading,
noted in my prior comment (and described more fully in the
article I referenced). Whether or not it's idomatic, it's
fabulous and makes every other performance seem tepid by
comparison, although it certainly shouldn't be your only
exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters
have recommended..
Power - yes. Potent - yes. Makes the others seem tepid - yes.
Must  hea
r it - yes.
Post by CharlesSmith
But once is enough.
Charles
Agreed! Much of the marvel of this performance (and others of
its type) is its spontaneity, which loses impact upon repeated
hearings.
Yes, like anything weird and novel, either you tire of it quickly or gradually
become convinced of its rightness (after which no other performance satisfies).
I'd put Golovanov's Borodin 2 in the former category myself, and definitely agree
with Don that it is "best savored" only after one is acquainted with the work in
more "normal" readings (also with better sound and orchestral playing). For
anyone who is curious, I've uploaded two post-war Soviet performances here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?uzpmb5gnvpnxv01 . They originally were shared with us
by Tobias (pyochungsa) back in 2007, and since the original links have expired I
hope he won't mind my reposting them. The single RAR file includes
Golovanov/Large SO of the USSR and Ivanov/USSR State Symphony. The former is sui
generis; the latter is a superb example of Soviet-era performance of native
repertoire, imo, and the sound is listenable as well.

AC
Alan Cooper
2011-08-25 19:42:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by CharlesSmith
Post by CharlesSmith
Post by peter gutmann
If it's power that you want, then you really owe it to
yourself to hear Golovanov's astoundingly potent reading,
noted in my prior comment (and described more fully in the
article I referenced). Whether or not it's idomatic, it's
fabulous and makes every other performance seem tepid by
comparison, although it certainly shouldn't be your only
exposure to this fine work and is best savored after you
become accustomed to some of the ones that other commenters
have recommended..
Power - yes. Potent - yes. Makes the others seem tepid - yes.
Must  hea
r it - yes.
Post by CharlesSmith
But once is enough.
Charles
Agreed! Much of the marvel of this performance (and others of
its type) is its spontaneity, which loses impact upon repeated
hearings.
Yes, like anything weird and novel, either you tire of it
quickly or gradually become convinced of its rightness (after
which no other performance satisfies). I'd put Golovanov's
Borodin 2 in the former category myself, and definitely agree
with Don that it is "best savored" only after one is acquainted
with the work in more "normal" readings (also with better sound
and orchestral playing). For anyone who is curious, I've
http://www.mediafire.com/?uzpmb5gnvpnxv01 . They originally
were shared with us by Tobias (pyochungsa) back in 2007, and
since the original links have expired I hope he won't mind my
reposting them. The single RAR file includes Golovanov/Large SO
of the USSR and Ivanov/USSR State Symphony. The former is sui
generis; the latter is a superb example of Soviet-era
performance of native repertoire, imo, and the sound is
listenable as well.
AC
Whoops, I don't think it was Don that I was agreeing with (or maybe I was). Never
mind: listen for yourselves.

AC
catman
2011-08-24 21:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And the last thing *I* heard from Seattle/Schwarz was his
Scheherazade, which I panned royally in ARG. That's why I was so
pleasantly surprised by his Borodin -- a vast step forward all around,
leadership, performance and sound. Now I'm looking forward even more
to his new Rimsky disc with several overtures and Capriccio Espagnol...
M forever
2011-08-24 21:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And the last thing *I* heard from Seattle/Schwarz was his
Scheherazade, which I panned royally in ARG. That's why I was so
pleasantly surprised by his Borodin -- a vast step forward all around,
leadership, performance and sound. Now I'm looking forward even more
to his new Rimsky disc with several overtures and Capriccio Espagnol...
Just out of curiosity, do you either "royally pan" recordings or
declare them "a knockout"? Or are there grades in between? Just asking.
catman
2011-08-24 21:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And the last thing *I* heard from Seattle/Schwarz was his
Scheherazade, which I panned royally in ARG. That's why I was so
pleasantly surprised by his Borodin -- a vast step forward all around,
leadership, performance and sound. Now I'm looking forward even more
to his new Rimsky disc with several overtures and Capriccio Espagnol...
Just out of curiosity, do you either "royally pan" recordings or
declare them "a knockout"? Or are there grades in between? Just asking.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but I doubt if Don Vroon would
let me call something a "knockout". He has already made it clear we
can't call anything a "winner" -- why, you'd have to ask him, he puts
so many perfectly good English words on his "don't use" list I can't
keep them all straight. Sometimes I wonder if Joel Flegler issues a
similar list to his reviewers...
Matthew B. Tepper
2011-08-24 23:52:45 UTC
Permalink
catman <***@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:eee5483b-606d-4cfc-bf0c-
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but I doubt if Don Vroon would let
me call something a "knockout". He has already made it clear we can't call
anything a "winner" -- why, you'd have to ask him, he puts so many
perfectly good English words on his "don't use" list I can't keep them all
straight. Sometimes I wonder if Joel Flegler issues a similar list to his
reviewers...
Considering how many reviews in the early (LP) years of Fanfare ended with,
"excellent sound and surfaces," an interesting question. Doris Chalfin never
told me of such limits when I was writing for ARG.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
"I don’t think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable
than left-wing social engineering. I don’t think imposing radical
change from the right or the left is a very good way for a free
society to operate. I think we need a national conversation to get
to a better Medicare system with more choices for seniors." Former
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich on "Meet the Press" 15 May 2011
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
M forever
2011-08-25 00:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And the last thing *I* heard from Seattle/Schwarz was his
Scheherazade, which I panned royally in ARG. That's why I was so
pleasantly surprised by his Borodin -- a vast step forward all around,
leadership, performance and sound. Now I'm looking forward even more
to his new Rimsky disc with several overtures and Capriccio Espagnol...
Just out of curiosity, do you either "royally pan" recordings or
declare them "a knockout"? Or are there grades in between? Just asking.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but I doubt if Don Vroon would
let me call something a "knockout". He has already made it clear we
can't call anything a "winner" -- why, you'd have to ask him, he puts
so many perfectly good English words on his "don't use" list I can't
keep them all straight. Sometimes I wonder if Joel Flegler issues a
similar list to his reviewers...
I don't "mind" your choice of words, you should use whatever
vocabulary you feel best brings your message across.
That wasn't what my question was about though. I think if you read it
again, it should be clear that I am not criticizing your vocabulary,
but that I am asking if your reviews generally end in a "top or flop"
recording - either the recording is amazing or it totally sucks. Of if
there are grades in between. Some reviewers take their own emotional
reaction as the measure of all things and so arrive at often pretty
extreme reactions (see Hurwitz) - which therefore are useless to the
reader. Of course, a personal element is, and should always be there
in a good review, but it shouldn't be the only standard employed by
the reviewer.
catman
2011-08-25 13:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by M forever
Post by catman
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Tjeknavorian is as good as it gets, but you really need to hear the
new Naxos from Gerard Schwarz -- it's a knockout, and at Naxos prices
-- in fact I just finished writing a rave review for ARG and it will
certainly make my year's end roundup. At those prices you can't afford
to add both Schwarz and Tjeknavorian to your collection. Trust me on
this one!
I am always interested in following up on enthusiastic
recommendations, but I will probably not trust you blindly as the last
things I have heard from Seattle/Schwarz were some seriously
underpowered and undercharacterized Shostakovich performances.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And the last thing *I* heard from Seattle/Schwarz was his
Scheherazade, which I panned royally in ARG. That's why I was so
pleasantly surprised by his Borodin -- a vast step forward all around,
leadership, performance and sound. Now I'm looking forward even more
to his new Rimsky disc with several overtures and Capriccio Espagnol...
Just out of curiosity, do you either "royally pan" recordings or
declare them "a knockout"? Or are there grades in between? Just asking.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but I doubt if Don Vroon would
let me call something a "knockout". He has already made it clear we
can't call anything a "winner" -- why, you'd have to ask him, he puts
so many perfectly good English words on his "don't use" list I can't
keep them all straight. Sometimes I wonder if Joel Flegler issues a
similar list to his reviewers...
I don't "mind" your choice of words, you should use whatever
vocabulary you feel best brings your message across.
That wasn't what my question was about though. I think if you read it
again, it should be clear that I am not criticizing your vocabulary,
but that I am asking if your reviews generally end in a "top or flop"
recording - either the recording is amazing or it totally sucks. Of if
there are grades in between. Some reviewers take their own emotional
reaction as the measure of all things and so arrive at often pretty
extreme reactions (see Hurwitz) - which therefore are useless to the
reader. Of course, a personal element is, and should always be there
in a good review, but it shouldn't be the only standard employed by
the reviewer.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Schwarz Borodin is amazing. The Schwarz Scheherazade totally
sucks. Happy now?

More to the point, either you and I have totally different views of
the role of the reviewer, or else you simply don't get it. Anyone who
reviews CDs for ARG or Fanfare has to be passionate about music, and
able to express this passion to the interested record buyer. Say what
you will about Don Vroon's politically incorrect creeds, he is
probably the most passionate reviewer on the ARG staff. Just read his
review of the new Audite CD of Grieg in the Sept/Oct issue: his
passion for the sound of the orchestra, the commitment of the
conductor and the playing of these fine musicians comes through in
every sentence. You may disagree for example that period instruments
and absence of vibrato hurt the ear, but you always know where he
stands; and if you don't agree with his sentiments, or if you feel
he's being too emotional in enthusiastically recommending or rejecting
the records he's reviewing, then you don't have to read his reviews.
It's as simple as that; and it goes for anyone else on our staff or
Flegler's team or (Heaven help me) even the reviewers at Gramophone
who never fail to praise to the skies some record I just panned. If
you can't write your reviews with your heart on your sleeve just like
the man (or woman) on the podium, then you should take up some other
line of work. While you have the Sept/Oct ARG in your hand, read my
review of the travesty that purports to be Sleeping Beauty from the
RPO -- more italics than I can ever recall using before -- that's how
I saw it, and that's how I called it, and once you've read enough of
my reviews or Don's or anyone else's that you know the reviewer's
tastes and how they jibe with your own, then you can simply follow
your own gut instincts -- as I follow mine. If that means you end up
pretty much buying anything I pan and vice versa just like I do when I
read Gramophone, that's cool; but you need to simply take it as a
given that we're going to tell you how we feel about a record, not
just point out all the places where the conductor went against the
score or the first chair horn muffed his part. The reader deserves so
much more than that. *You* deserve so much more than that.
Gerard
2011-08-25 13:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by catman
The Schwarz Borodin is amazing. The Schwarz Scheherazade totally
sucks.
Would you mind to tell us why it sucks?
catman
2011-08-25 14:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by catman
The Schwarz Borodin is amazing. The Schwarz Scheherazade totally
sucks.
Would you mind to tell us why it sucks?
Well, gee, obviously I'd much rather you subscribed to ARG and had the
May/June 2011 issue on your shelf; but just to sum up, there's no
forward motion to Sinbad's ship in the first movement (nor Dutoit on
Onyx either, it was a dual review); Scheherazade sounds like she's
cooped up in an echo chamber; the solo horn is so quavery it sounds
like Sinbad has mal de mer; there's no clue anywhere that Schwarz is
the least bit involved with the music; his prosaic account of the
Young Prince and the Young Princess can't approach Stoky's purple
passion (the Decca, I mean); Schwarz pushes the woodwind players so
hard in the Festival at Baghdad they don't have time to shape phrases,
and then he simply spins out of control, plummeting faster and faster
until the ship crashes into the rock. He's way too fast when the
warriors emerge from the sea in Tsar Saltan too (Ansermet gets it just
right) and why even bother adding the Flight of the Bumblebee if
you're only going to play half of it?

But hey, other than *that* it's a perfectly good recording...
Gerard
2011-08-25 15:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by catman
Post by Gerard
Post by catman
The Schwarz Borodin is amazing. The Schwarz Scheherazade totally
sucks.
Would you mind to tell us why it sucks?
Well, gee, obviously I'd much rather you subscribed to ARG and had the
May/June 2011 issue on your shelf; but just to sum up, there's no
forward motion to Sinbad's ship in the first movement (nor Dutoit on
Onyx either, it was a dual review); Scheherazade sounds like she's
cooped up in an echo chamber; the solo horn is so quavery it sounds
like Sinbad has mal de mer; there's no clue anywhere that Schwarz is
the least bit involved with the music; his prosaic account of the
Young Prince and the Young Princess can't approach Stoky's purple
passion (the Decca, I mean); Schwarz pushes the woodwind players so
hard in the Festival at Baghdad they don't have time to shape phrases,
and then he simply spins out of control, plummeting faster and faster
until the ship crashes into the rock. He's way too fast when the
warriors emerge from the sea in Tsar Saltan too (Ansermet gets it just
right) and why even bother adding the Flight of the Bumblebee if
you're only going to play half of it?
But hey, other than *that* it's a perfectly good recording...
Thanks.
It's just a few details ;-)
(BTW ARG seems to be something American - it's not available where I live; I've
never seen one.)
(BTW2 There are quite a few recordings with a short version of the Flight of the
Bumblebee - e.g. Previn, Ashkenazy, Marriner, Stkowski.)
Mark S
2011-08-24 21:05:02 UTC
Permalink
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
Seconded.

Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's Gayneh from around the
same time and with the same band is also highly recommendable,
especially for the recorded sound, which is fab.
M forever
2011-08-24 21:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
Seconded.
Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's Gayneh from around the
same time and with the same band is also highly recommendable,
especially for the recorded sound, which is fab.
He also recorded that (but only the suite, not the whole ballet) and
lots of other Khatchaturian later with the Armenian orchestra. Dunno
any of those recordings except for the mentioned Rimsky-Korsakoff, but
those discs look like something definitely worth exploring.
Frank Berger
2011-08-24 21:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the
players all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes
everything nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant,
immediate and "natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any
better than this. Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
Seconded.
Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's Gayneh from around the
same time and with the same band is also highly recommendable,
especially for the recorded sound, which is fab.
Hmm. I don't know if this what you're referring to, but if it us, the
reviewers pretty consistently panned the recording:

http://www.amazon.com/Khachaturian-Complete-Selections-Spartacus-Masquerade/dp/B0007INY2Q/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1314220356&sr=1-4
Gerard
2011-08-24 21:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Mark S
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a
little known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was
a London pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The
playing of the orchestra is just as good as that of any London
orchestra (the players all came from the sam pool anyway), the
conductor shapes everything nicely and musically, the sound is
very pleasant, immediate and "natural" late 70s sound. It really
doesn't get any better than this. Oh, wait, it does - it's also
really cheap!
Seconded.
Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's Gayneh from around
the same time and with the same band is also highly recommendable,
especially for the recorded sound, which is fab.
Hmm. I don't know if this what you're referring to, but if it us, the
http://www.amazon.com/Khachaturian-Complete-Selections-Spartacus-Masquerade/dp/B0007INY2Q/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1314220356&sr=1-4

Right. The recorded sound is bad.
Mark S
2011-08-24 23:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the
players all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes
everything nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant,
immediate and "natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any
better than this. Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
Seconded.
Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's Gayneh from around the
same time and with the same band is also highly recommendable,
especially for the recorded sound, which is fab.
Hmm.  I don't know if this what you're referring to, but if it us, the
http://www.amazon.com/Khachaturian-Complete-Selections-Spartacus-Masq...
That is what I was referring to, and - to paraphrase Maxine Waters -
the reviewers can go to hell. :)
Dave Cook
2011-08-24 23:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
That is what I was referring to, and - to paraphrase Maxine Waters -
the reviewers can go to hell. :)
The folks on Amazon seem to be complaining about the CD transfer. I
did find it rather tinny. I'm not sure if I still have the Lps to
compare.

Dave Cook
Mark S
2011-08-24 23:48:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
That is what I was referring to, and - to paraphrase Maxine Waters -
the reviewers can go to hell.  :)
The folks on Amazon seem to be complaining about the CD transfer.  I
did find it rather tinny.  I'm not sure if I still have the Lps to
compare.
Dave Cook
The LPs did sound fab. I no longer own them. There have been 2 CD
issues of this set, and both times the reviewers complained about the
transferred sound. I don't remember it being all that tinny. I'd go
back and re-listen, but I must admit that much of Khactaturian comes
off as being repetitious and banal, with Gayneh being no exception,
and I'm not up to listening to it right now.
Frank Berger
2011-08-25 00:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
Post by Mark S
That is what I was referring to, and - to paraphrase Maxine Waters -
the reviewers can go to hell. :)
The folks on Amazon seem to be complaining about the CD transfer. I
did find it rather tinny. I'm not sure if I still have the Lps to
compare.
Dave Cook
The LPs did sound fab. I no longer own them. There have been 2 CD
issues of this set, and both times the reviewers complained about the
transferred sound. I don't remember it being all that tinny. I'd go
back and re-listen, but I must admit that much of Khactaturian comes
off as being repetitious and banal, with Gayneh being no exception,
and I'm not up to listening to it right now.
Why would you have recommended something that is "repetitious and banal?"
Mark S
2011-08-25 05:17:56 UTC
Permalink
On Aug 24, 5:33 pm, "Frank Berger" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

I must admit that much of Khactaturian comes
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Mark S
off as being repetitious and banal, with Gayneh being no exception,
and I'm not up to listening to it right now.
Why would you have recommended something that is "repetitious and banal?"
Some people enjoy repetitious and banal.

I'll spare you the diversion into a religious rant. :)
M forever
2011-08-25 01:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark S
Post by Mark S
That is what I was referring to, and - to paraphrase Maxine Waters -
the reviewers can go to hell.  :)
The folks on Amazon seem to be complaining about the CD transfer.  I
did find it rather tinny.  I'm not sure if I still have the Lps to
compare.
Dave Cook
The LPs did sound fab. I no longer own them. There have been 2 CD
issues of this set, and both times the reviewers complained about the
transferred sound. I don't remember it being all that tinny. I'd go
back and re-listen, but I must admit that much of Khactaturian comes
off as being repetitious and banal, with Gayneh being no exception,
and I'm not up to listening to it right now.
Since my taste is not as refined as yours, I was actually able to pull
out and check this recording. The sound is indeed a little thinner and
wirier than on the Borodin symphonies, but if that means it is just
the way it was recorded, or if it has anything to do with the
transfer, I can't say since I never heard the LPs - and if I had, who
knows if I would still remember exactly how they sounded. I wonder if
the infuriated reviewers do. It probably sounded "warmer" on LP. But
the sound is still pretty good, wide, detailed stereo imaging, and
there is a lot of wind and percussion stuff going on where the slight
wiriness of the strings doesn't really matter that much. I can easily
adjust to the sound - there is a lot much worse stuff out there.

I also spotchecked the Borodin symphonies - the sound is just as good
as I remembered it.
Randy Lane
2011-08-24 21:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VY...
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-B...
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003...
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
I wonder why Borodin was not included in any of the Warner Svetlanov
boxes that showed in the last few years.
CharlesSmith
2011-08-24 22:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by M forever
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VYDZU/
Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!
http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-Orchestral-Works-Box/dp/B00007E8M3/
Back to Borodin, for something rather deft and edgy, you could also
check out Svetlanov's recordings, e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-1-2-Borodin/dp/B0000E6XKD/
But it seems that used copies at a reasonable price are rare, and
there are some problems with the sound - it's OK for the source and
time, but I seem to recall there are some distortion problems.
Svetlanov did re-record all the symphonies for RCA in the 90s though,
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-2-Bogatyrskaya-Petite-Suite/dp/B000003FO5/
These recordings are a little less edgy, a little less "Soviet" (not
so much horn vibrato, for instance), but still worth hearing, and the
sound is good.
So, I would recommend to get the Tjeknavorian set and the Svetlanov
recordings on RCA. You will not be disappointed.
Thanks for the Tjeknavorian recommendation - which I'll certainly get.

I have Svetlanov with the USSR SO on a Moscow Studio Archives CD. The recording is dated 1983, and I find the sound OK, a bit rough and unsophisticated but that's quite appealing, and as you say, it has a nice Soviet tang. My problem with it is his perpetual manipulation of the tempi. The music rarely flows - pauses before every accented chord. Nowhere near as bad as Golovanov's absurd posturings, but enough to get on my nerves after a few hearings.

The recording I'm emotionally attached to - even though I don't usually do 'historical' - is Malko and the Philharmonia. He seems to have the best of everything. The music moves on freely, more or less at Borodin's marked speeds, and yet he captures every nuance.

Charles
Dave Cook
2011-08-24 23:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by CharlesSmith
The recording I'm emotionally attached to - even though I don't
usually do 'historical' - is Malko and the Philharmonia.
A "historical" that I heard a long time ago and found really beautiful
was Kletzki on EMI, also with the Philharmonia. I put "historical" in
quotes because the recording only just missed the stereo era. It's
fine sound otherwise. I admit that I never picked up the Testament
re-issue as I seem to have enough Borodin 2s.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//SBT1048.htm

Dave Cook
Ed Presson
2011-08-25 03:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
(http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
What you need is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Borodin-Symphonies-Nos-1-3-Alexander/dp/B0002VYDZU/

Playing, interpretation, sound - all "10". Tjeknavorian is a little
known Armenian conductor and the National Philharmonic was a London
pickup orchestra for recordings, but fear not. The playing of the
orchestra is just as good as that of any London orchestra (the players
all came from the sam pool anyway), the conductor shapes everything
nicely and musically, the sound is very pleasant, immediate and
"natural" late 70s sound. It really doesn't get any better than this.
Oh, wait, it does - it's also really cheap!

***********

I concur. The Tjeknavorian readings are excellent.

Ed Presson
Josquin
2011-08-25 05:36:13 UTC
Permalink
I'd also suggest a recommendation for my imprint version of Symphony
No. 2, the Kubelik, although the Ansermet is also very fine.

And to change the subject somewhat - and I hope this doesn't get me
exiled to a different thread - I'd like to put in a word for another
symphony I've always associated with the Borodin, though it is not as
well known or frequently played, the Balakirev No. 1. Maybe because I
discovered them at around the same time, both on Seraphim LPs, but I
think they share interesting thematic material and vivid
orchestrations. And this is another case where Beecham shows his skill
in shaping the music and the Jarvi version disappoints. The Beecham is
available only on an Arkiv CD: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=282880
And also from iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/balakirev-symphony-no-1-in/id357825841

For those not familiar with this work, I'd put in a strong
recommendation. Although the first movement is a little weak, the
Scherzo and Andante are really memorable.
Frank Berger
2011-08-25 13:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josquin
I'd also suggest a recommendation for my imprint version of Symphony
No. 2, the Kubelik, although the Ansermet is also very fine.
And to change the subject somewhat - and I hope this doesn't get me
exiled to a different thread - I'd like to put in a word for another
symphony I've always associated with the Borodin, though it is not as
well known or frequently played, the Balakirev No. 1. Maybe because I
discovered them at around the same time, both on Seraphim LPs, but I
think they share interesting thematic material and vivid
orchestrations. And this is another case where Beecham shows his skill
in shaping the music and the Jarvi version disappoints. The Beecham is
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=282880 And
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/balakirev-symphony-no-1-in/id357825841
For those not familiar with this work, I'd put in a strong
recommendation. Although the first movement is a little weak, the
Scherzo and Andante are really memorable.
Other recordings of note are Karajan from 1949 (coupled with Roussel
Symphony #4) and Kondrashin (coupled with Kalinnikov Symphony #1).
Gerard
2011-08-25 14:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Josquin
I'd also suggest a recommendation for my imprint version of Symphony
No. 2, the Kubelik, although the Ansermet is also very fine.
And to change the subject somewhat - and I hope this doesn't get me
exiled to a different thread - I'd like to put in a word for another
symphony I've always associated with the Borodin, though it is not
as well known or frequently played, the Balakirev No. 1.
Probably that's not very smart, changing of subject without changing the subject
line.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Josquin
Maybe
because I discovered them at around the same time, both on Seraphim
LPs, but I think they share interesting thematic material and vivid
orchestrations. And this is another case where Beecham shows his
skill in shaping the music and the Jarvi version disappoints. The
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=282880 And
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/balakirev-symphony-no-1-in/id357825841
For those not familiar with this work, I'd put in a strong
recommendation. Although the first movement is a little weak, the
Scherzo and Andante are really memorable.
Other recordings of note are Karajan from 1949 (coupled with Roussel
Symphony #4) and Kondrashin (coupled with Kalinnikov Symphony #1).
And a few recordings by Svetlanov.
Bob Harper
2011-08-24 20:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I have a sealed copy of the Jarvi box of Borodin Orchestral Works
( http://tinyurl.com/4y54sst ). I'm trying to decide whether to open
it or sell it while it is OOP and will fetch a good return. While I
find Jarvi recordings generally serviceable, and the recorded sound is
most always excellent whether the source be DG, Chandos, or BIS, his
readings rarely get me inspired to repeated listenings. I think I have
the Ansermet (#1 and #2 only if I recall) buried somewhere in the
overflowing piles of yet-to-be-listened-to CDs. If not, I will most
certainly acquire it soon.
ansermet is #2 and #3. Martinon for #2 is essential. The new Naxos of
all three on a single CD from Schwartz/Seattle has gotten good reviews,
but I haven't heard it.

Bob Harper
Dave Cook
2011-08-24 22:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
Kubelik/VPO in 2.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000059T6V

Dave Cook
Heck51
2011-08-25 00:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I've always liked the Mitropoulos/NYPO version of Borodin #2, tho I'm
not sure it is available separatrely at this time.
Frank Berger
2011-08-25 00:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Heck51
Post by Randy Lane
Are there any knock-out first choices when it comes to recordings of
the Borodin Symphonies (individually or integrally)?
I've always liked the Mitropoulos/NYPO version of Borodin #2, tho I'm
not sure it is available separatrely at this time.
A couple of recordings not mentioned that may be of interest are Coates
(1929) and Konstantin Ivanov (early 50s). The latter hasn't been on CD,
AFAIK, but can be downloaded.
Sol L. Siegel
2011-08-25 04:39:31 UTC
Permalink
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on Philips.
If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too little, so be it.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Gerard
2011-08-25 06:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on
Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too little,
so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin (also on Philips)
and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant Classics).
Sol L. Siegel
2011-08-26 03:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on
Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too little,
so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin (also on
Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant Classics).
Oops, missed it. Sorry. d;>)

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Gerard
2011-08-26 08:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sol L. Siegel
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on
Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too
little, so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin (also
on Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant Classics).
Oops, missed it. Sorry. d;>)
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Could happen.
But it Gergiev's recording your favorite?
I did not hear it for a long time, but I remember it as something "below" the
more or less usual exciting recordings Gergiev makes. In the same realm as his
Symphonie fantastique. Good, but not special.
Likewise the recordings By Kondrashin and Rozhdestveksy. Which is remarkable.
(I don't know the recordings by Svetlanov, but I expect them to be closer to
Martinon's.)
(Listening to the recording by Olé Schmidt now.)
r***@gmail.com
2011-08-26 14:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on
Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too
little, so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin (also
on Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant Classics).
Oops, missed it.  Sorry.  d;>)
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Could happen.
But it Gergiev's recording your favorite?
I did not hear it for a long time, but I remember it as something "below" the
more or less usual exciting recordings Gergiev makes. In the same realm as his
Symphonie fantastique. Good, but not special.
Likewise the recordings By Kondrashin and Rozhdestveksy. Which is remarkable.
(I don't know the recordings by Svetlanov, but I expect them to be closer to
Martinon's.)
(Listening to the recording by Olé Schmidt now.)
I have two sets by Svetlanov. The first Melodiya set was with the USSR
SO, and quite passionate: tempo changes are frequent, so if this
disturbs you pass it by. The second set was for Hyperion, recorded in
the UK, and seems to me dull by comparison. Any Svetlanov recording on
RCA seems more likely to be a BMG reissue of the Melodiya recordings.
Svetlanov USSR SO is as close as any I have found to a Golovanov-style
performance in listenable stereo sound. It is available from
prestoclassical on various labels.
Tjeknavorian seemed to me close to Svetlanov's British recordings-
perhaps a bit more lively in spots, less so in others. I have listened
to neither of these sets in years. The early EMI recordings of
Kubelik and Malko are worthwhile as is Martinon. I never warmed to
Ansermet's version and in response to an early post I'd get rid of the
Jarvi set ASAP. It's routine. Any of the ones listed above would be
better.
But do take the opportunity to download Ivanov and Golovanov before
you do anything else. Alan is right: you may hear and find afterwards
there is no other way for you, or simply listen and reject as OTT, but
they should be heard. You are not likely to run into anything like it
on the radio or in a concert hall today (NE USA at any rate).
Richard
Gerard
2011-08-26 14:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Gerard
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2
on Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too
little, so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin
(also on Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant
Classics).
Oops, missed it. Sorry. d;>)
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Could happen.
But it Gergiev's recording your favorite?
I did not hear it for a long time, but I remember it as something
"below" the more or less usual exciting recordings Gergiev makes.
In the same realm as his Symphonie fantastique. Good, but not
special.
Likewise the recordings By Kondrashin and Rozhdestveksy. Which is
remarkable. (I don't know the recordings by Svetlanov, but I expect
them to be closer to Martinon's.)
(Listening to the recording by Olé Schmidt now.)
I have two sets by Svetlanov. The first Melodiya set was with the USSR
SO, and quite passionate: tempo changes are frequent, so if this
disturbs you pass it by. The second set was for Hyperion, recorded in
the UK, and seems to me dull by comparison. Any Svetlanov recording on
RCA seems more likely to be a BMG reissue of the Melodiya recordings.
Svetlanov USSR SO is as close as any I have found to a Golovanov-style
performance in listenable stereo sound. It is available from
prestoclassical on various labels.
Tjeknavorian seemed to me close to Svetlanov's British recordings-
perhaps a bit more lively in spots, less so in others. I have listened
to neither of these sets in years. The early EMI recordings of
Kubelik and Malko are worthwhile as is Martinon. I never warmed to
Ansermet's version and in response to an early post I'd get rid of the
Jarvi set ASAP. It's routine. Any of the ones listed above would be
better.
But do take the opportunity to download Ivanov and Golovanov before
you do anything else. Alan is right: you may hear and find afterwards
there is no other way for you, or simply listen and reject as OTT, but
they should be heard. You are not likely to run into anything like it
on the radio or in a concert hall today (NE USA at any rate).
Richard
Thanks.
I will have to keep an eye open for the Melodiya Svetlanov (having the
recordings by Kubelik, Martinon and a few others already) - but I'm not in a
hurry.
Did you hear the very recent Naxos recording by Schwarz?
r***@gmail.com
2011-08-26 16:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerard
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Gerard
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2
on Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too
little, so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin
(also on Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant
Classics).
Oops, missed it. Sorry. d;>)
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Could happen.
But it Gergiev's recording your favorite?
I did not hear it for a long time, but I remember it as something
"below" the more or less usual exciting recordings Gergiev makes.
In the same realm as his Symphonie fantastique. Good, but not
special.
Likewise the recordings By Kondrashin and Rozhdestveksy. Which is
remarkable. (I don't know the recordings by Svetlanov, but I expect
them to be closer to Martinon's.)
(Listening to the recording by Olé Schmidt now.)
I have two sets by Svetlanov. The first Melodiya set was with the USSR
SO, and quite passionate: tempo changes are frequent, so if this
disturbs you pass it by. The second set was for Hyperion, recorded in
the UK, and seems to me dull by comparison. Any Svetlanov recording on
RCA seems more likely to be a BMG reissue of the Melodiya recordings.
Svetlanov USSR SO is as close as any I have found to a Golovanov-style
performance in listenable stereo sound. It is available from
prestoclassical on various labels.
Tjeknavorian seemed to me close to Svetlanov's British recordings-
perhaps a bit more lively in spots, less so in others. I have listened
to neither of these sets in years.  The early EMI recordings of
Kubelik and Malko are worthwhile as is Martinon. I never warmed to
Ansermet's version and in response to an early post I'd get rid of the
Jarvi set ASAP. It's routine. Any of the ones listed above would be
better.
But do take the opportunity to download Ivanov and Golovanov before
you do anything else. Alan is right: you may hear and find afterwards
there is no other way for you, or simply listen and reject as OTT, but
they should be heard. You are not likely to run into anything like it
on the radio or in a concert hall today (NE USA at any rate).
Richard
Thanks.
I will have to keep an eye open for the Melodiya Svetlanov (having the
recordings by Kubelik, Martinon and a few others already) - but I'm not in a
hurry.
Did you hear the very recent Naxos recording by Schwarz?
No, I have not heard the Naxos recordings.

M forever
2011-08-26 17:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Gerard
Post by Gerard
Post by Sol L. Siegel
41 posts and no one has mentioned the Gergiev/Rotterdam 1 & 2 on
Philips. If this means you all think I'm satisfied with too
little, so be it.
I did mention it, together with the recordings by Kondrashin (also
on Philips) and Rozhdestvensky (on Chandos and Brilliant Classics).
Oops, missed it.  Sorry.  d;>)
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Could happen.
But it Gergiev's recording your favorite?
I did not hear it for a long time, but I remember it as something "below" the
more or less usual exciting recordings Gergiev makes. In the same realm as his
Symphonie fantastique. Good, but not special.
Likewise the recordings By Kondrashin and Rozhdestveksy. Which is remarkable.
(I don't know the recordings by Svetlanov, but I expect them to be closer to
Martinon's.)
(Listening to the recording by Olé Schmidt now.)
I have two sets by Svetlanov. The first Melodiya set was with the USSR
SO, and quite passionate: tempo changes are frequent, so if this
disturbs you pass it by. The second set was for Hyperion, recorded in
the UK, and seems to me dull by comparison. Any Svetlanov recording on
RCA seems more likely to be a BMG reissue of the Melodiya recordings.
The Borodin symphonies were actually recorded for RCA in the 90s. They
are not the same as the Melodiya recordings. Svetlanov made a number
of recordings for RCA in that period. I don't know if RCA reissued any
Melodiya recordings (could be, but I don't know of any such cases).
Post by r***@gmail.com
Svetlanov USSR SO is as close as any I have found to a Golovanov-style
performance in listenable stereo sound. It is available from
prestoclassical on various labels.
Tjeknavorian seemed to me close to Svetlanov's British recordings-
perhaps a bit more lively in spots, less so in others. I have listened
to neither of these sets in years.  The early EMI recordings of
Kubelik and Malko are worthwhile as is Martinon. I never warmed to
Ansermet's version and in response to an early post I'd get rid of the
Jarvi set ASAP. It's routine. Any of the ones listed above would be
better.
But do take the opportunity to download Ivanov and Golovanov before
you do anything else. Alan is right: you may hear and find afterwards
there is no other way for you, or simply listen and reject as OTT, but
they should be heard. You are not likely to run into anything like it
on the radio or in a concert hall today (NE USA at any rate).
Richard
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