Discussion:
Foldes, Kempff, François, Babayan
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s***@hotmail.com
2020-08-05 09:43:34 UTC
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Three boxes of piano music:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andor-Foldes-Complete-Grammophon-Recordings/dp/B08BDSDTW3
https://store.deutschegrammophon.com/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/samson-francois-complete-recordings

And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.

Any comments on Foldes?

Soeren
operafan
2020-08-05 12:25:39 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.
So am I! I heard Babayan when he was a contestant in the Casadesus (now Cleveland) International Piano Competition, 1989. He was far and away the most musical, exciting contestant that year, and of course he won first prize. I have heard him in concert many times in Cleveland, although he has gotten into the Argerich-like habit of frequent cancellations.

I cannot believe it took this long for him to get a contract with a major label. His earlier recordings of Scarlatti, Liszt, Vine, Messiaen, and Ravel are worth seeking out.
Frank Berger
2020-08-05 15:19:13 UTC
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Post by operafan
Post by s***@hotmail.com
And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.
So am I! I heard Babayan when he was a contestant in the Casadesus (now Cleveland) International Piano Competition, 1989. He was far and away the most musical, exciting contestant that year, and of course he won first prize. I have heard him in concert many times in Cleveland, although he has gotten into the Argerich-like habit of frequent cancellations.
I cannot believe it took this long for him to get a contract with a major label. His earlier recordings of Scarlatti, Liszt, Vine, Messiaen, and Ravel are worth seeking out.
Even weirder, he new Babayan release was recorded in 2009.
Neil
2020-08-09 06:31:05 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.
He's Trifonov's teacher too.
John Fowler
2020-09-03 17:18:14 UTC
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New details about the Wilhelm Kempff Edition - it will include 6 CDs of Mark Obert-Thorn transfers previously on APR:
https://www.bravado.de/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
Mark Obert-Thorn
2020-09-04 00:35:57 UTC
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Post by John Fowler
https://www.bravado.de/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
Really? That's the first I've heard about it. Thanks for letting me know, John. (I wonder if I can get DG to send me a copy . . . ?)

Mark O-T
drh8h
2020-09-08 03:29:53 UTC
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Post by Mark Obert-Thorn
Post by John Fowler
https://www.bravado.de/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
Really? That's the first I've heard about it. Thanks for letting me know, John. (I wonder if I can get DG to send me a copy . . . ?)
Mark O-T
Doesn't appear they remastered anything, so yours are probably the latest masterings in the set.

DH
vhorowitz
2020-09-08 05:32:04 UTC
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I’m certainly happy they’re including your versions of those, Mark, but how disappointing that this isn’t an original jacket type set. The rest of the set seems to be merely a combining of the previous solo and concerto sets, which were not even complete for his lp era material.
c***@gmail.com
2020-08-05 15:17:51 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andor-Foldes-Complete-Grammophon-Recordings/dp/B08BDSDTW3
https://store.deutschegrammophon.com/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/samson-francois-complete-recordings
And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.
Any comments on Foldes?
Soeren
For me, the Foldes box is too much of a muchness. He's almost always worth hearing in 20th-century repertoire, much less so in the "classics," imo. Technically reliable, ranging from solid to stolid. A good sampler is this previous DG issue: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8049188--wizard-of-the-keyboard. My favorite performances there are of the Kodaly pieces. YMMV, so if you like the Bach and Beethoven there you should consider the big box seriously.

AC
Henk vT
2020-08-05 16:58:32 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
Any comments on Foldes?
Foldes/Gielen Bartok PC2 is by far the best version of the piece. In general, I prefer his Bartok to Kocsis's.

Henk
Henk vT
2020-08-05 17:04:23 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Any comments on Foldes?
Foldes/Gielen Bartok PC2 is by far the best version of the piece. In general, I prefer his Bartok to Kocsis's.
Foldes/Biget (?)
Frank Berger
2020-08-05 17:49:36 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Any comments on Foldes?
Foldes/Gielen Bartok PC2 is by far the best version of the piece. In general, I prefer his Bartok to Kocsis's.
Henk
Are you perhaps thinking of Gielen/Sandor or Bigot/Foldes?

I have the former, not the latter.

There are many good recordings:

Sandor / Gielen
Fanradi / Scherchen
Anda / Fricsay
Kocsis / Fischer
Richter / Svetlanov

I don't know about "best."
Henk vT
2020-08-05 21:02:52 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Are you perhaps thinking of Gielen/Sandor or Bigot/Foldes?
<g> I was thinking Foldes and wasn't quite sure about the rest. Thanks for correcting the name of the conductor: Bigot instead of Biget.
Post by Frank Berger
I don't know about "best."
Yes, there are many good recordings, in particular Anda and Sandor. I like Foldes best. He has a great sense of rhythm and has a 'clean' or 'natural' piano sound.

Henk
c***@gmail.com
2020-08-05 17:56:04 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Any comments on Foldes?
Foldes/Gielen Bartok PC2 is by far the best version of the piece. In general, I prefer his Bartok to Kocsis's.
Henk
Foldes/Gielen? I know Foldes/Bigot and Sandor/Gielen, but not Foldes/Gielen. Reference please. Foldes/Bigot is precise but plodding to my ears. The first movement should take off like a rocket! You probably know this over the top but insanely exciting version:
In the solo works, I appreciate Foldes' calm and steady approach more, but in the same vein I prefer Sandor (either set) to Foldes. You?

AC
Henk vT
2020-08-05 21:24:09 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Foldes/Gielen? I know Foldes/Bigot and Sandor/Gielen, but not Foldes/Gielen. Reference please. Foldes/Bigot is precise but plodding to my ears. The first movement should take off like a rocket! You probably know this over the top but insanely exciting version: http://youtu.be/IAk1_POZYhs In the solo works, I appreciate Foldes' calm and steady approach more, but in the same vein I prefer Sandor (either set) to Foldes. You?
Many thanks for the link. Ranki is great, as always. I'm not quite sure if I like his Bartok. Somehow I associate this composer with strict tempi and dynamics, with complete control.

In general, I like Sandor better than Foldes, but not in Bartok.

Henk
Frank Berger
2020-08-05 22:24:41 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by c***@gmail.com
Foldes/Gielen? I know Foldes/Bigot and Sandor/Gielen, but not Foldes/Gielen. Reference please. Foldes/Bigot is precise but plodding to my ears. The first movement should take off like a rocket! You probably know this over the top but insanely exciting version: http://youtu.be/IAk1_POZYhs In the solo works, I appreciate Foldes' calm and steady approach more, but in the same vein I prefer Sandor (either set) to Foldes. You?
Many thanks for the link. Ranki is great, as always. I'm not quite sure if I like his Bartok. Somehow I associate this composer with strict tempi and dynamics, with complete control.
In general, I like Sandor better than Foldes, but not in Bartok.
Henk
"Rank is great, as always," but your not sure if you like
his Bartok. Can you see that statement needs clarification?
You're on a roll.
Frank Berger
2020-08-05 23:36:25 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Henk vT
Foldes/Gielen?  I know Foldes/Bigot and Sandor/Gielen,
but not Foldes/Gielen. Reference please.  Foldes/Bigot is
precise but plodding to my ears.  The first movement
should take off like a rocket!  You probably know this
http://youtu.be/IAk1_POZYhs In the solo
works, I appreciate Foldes' calm and steady approach
more, but in the same vein I prefer Sandor (either set)
to Foldes.  You?
Many thanks for the link. Ranki is great, as always. I'm
not quite sure if I like his Bartok. Somehow I associate
this composer with strict tempi and dynamics, with
complete control.
In general, I like Sandor better than Foldes, but not in
Bartok.
Henk
"Rank is great, as always," but your not sure if you like
his Bartok.  Can you see that statement needs clarification?
You're on a roll.
I meant "Ranki," of course. And I meant "you're." I need a
do-over.
Henk vT
2020-08-06 07:57:47 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
"Rank is great, as always," but your not sure if you like
his Bartok. Can you see that statement needs clarification?
You're on a roll.
Someone's greatness is independent of my likes and dislikes. Wagner was a great composer, but I don't like his music. The performance of Bartok 2 to which Alan linked us is a great achievement (as can be expected from Ranki), but not to my taste. There is another version of the concerto on YT, also with Ranki/Kocsis, which I like more.

Henk
Frank Berger
2020-08-06 13:02:30 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by Frank Berger
"Rank is great, as always," but your not sure if you like
his Bartok. Can you see that statement needs clarification?
You're on a roll.
Someone's greatness is independent of my likes and dislikes.
That's an interesting point, consistent with the "Philosophy
of the Arts" class I took 52 years ago. After hammering
away or a semester, our conclusion was that (we focused on
painting, but it applies to all art) "A good painting
satisfies certain, not necessarily specified, criteria about
what constitutes good painting." Like use of color,
balance, perspective.... What are the criteria for "great"
pianism?


Wagner was a great composer, but I don't like his music.
The performance of Bartok 2 to which Alan linked us is a
great achievement (as can be expected from Ranki), but not
to my taste. There is another version of the concerto on YT,
also with Ranki/Kocsis, which I like more.
Post by Henk vT
Henk
OK.
JohnGavin
2020-08-06 13:07:44 UTC
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A brilliant recording of PC#2 by non-Hungarians:

Pollini / Abbado
Frank Berger
2020-08-06 13:34:38 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Pollini / Abbado
Cultural (mis)appropriation.
Henk vT
2020-08-06 14:22:56 UTC
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What are the criteria for "great" pianism?
<g> Great pianists have attained a level of piano playing that is generally deemed to be higher than that of most others. On Pianostreet one would call it level 10 (tongue in cheek):

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=62795.0

Henk
Frank Berger
2020-08-06 14:53:20 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
What are the criteria for "great" pianism?
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=62795.0
Henk
A start of answer to my question appears in one of the
comments: color, dynamics, not hitting wrong notes (is that
the same as technique?). Of course apropos another thread,
the State might include political correctness as a criterion.
Tatonik
2020-08-06 17:52:44 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
<g> Great pianists have attained a level of piano playing that is
generally deemed to be higher than that of most others. On
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=62795.0
Henk
"Amateur (Lvl 3) - This guy plays the piano rather often, for fun, but
doesn't really challenge himself. Can play most of the well-known tunes
and has a decent knowledge of fingering. Example tunes would be Fur
Elise, River Flows in You, Canon in D, Clair de Lune, etc."

I've never played River Flows in You, Canon in D, nor Clair de Lune.
But I do play Etc with some regularity.

I desire another level between three and four. Then the scale would go
to eleven, as they say.
dk
2020-08-05 20:46:34 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Any comments on Foldes?
Foldes/Gielen Bartok PC2 is by far the
) best version of the piece. In general,
Post by Henk vT
I prefer his Bartok to Kocsis's.
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Richter/Ferencsik

dk
m***@gmail.com
2020-08-06 03:57:54 UTC
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Post by s***@hotmail.com
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andor-Foldes-Complete-Grammophon-Recordings/dp/B08BDSDTW3
https://store.deutschegrammophon.com/p51-i0028948390755/wilhelm-kempff/wilhelm-kempff-edition-ltd-80-cd-box-/index.html
https://www.warnerclassics.com/release/samson-francois-complete-recordings
And a single cd: Babayan playing Rachmaninov is being released in two days - two tracks already on Spotify. I am looking forward to hearing all of it.
Any comments on Foldes?
I agree with AC. Foldes is terrific in 20th century music. His Stravinsky sonata is my favorite recording of this beautiful and, at times, very funny piece.

Martin
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Soeren
Kepler
2020-08-08 21:17:11 UTC
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How will this new box differ from the prior Samson Francois box?
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