Discussion:
NYT: Near a Breakthrough at the Baltimore Symphony
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Premise Checker
2005-07-16 23:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Near a Breakthrough at the Baltimore Symphony
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/arts/music/16also.html

[I have only her recording of the Tchaikovsky 4th and R&J Ov. I so
strongly prefer the older recordings, like Mengelberg and Mravinsky and
several others, too, that I can't compare her with any of the moderns,
really. But I'll give this Naxos disc some additional hearings.]

By [3]JEREMY EICHLER

The conducting podiums of large American orchestras have historically
been an all-male province, but the Baltimore Symphony may finally be
changing that. On Wednesday, a 21-member search committee voted to
make the American conductor Marin Alsop the orchestra's next music
director. If her appointment is ratified by the orchestra's board on
Tuesday, she will become the first woman to lead a major American
orchestra.

Ms. Alsop, 48, is currently principal conductor of the Bournemouth
Symphony Orchestra in England, but insiders have long speculated that
a major American post was on its way. Her three-year contract with
Baltimore, which has not been finalized, states that she would serve
as music director designate starting in the 2006-7 season and begin
her official tenure in the fall of 2007, said James Glicker, president
and chief executive of the Baltimore Symphony. She would succeed Yuri
Temirkanov, now in his sixth season with the orchestra.

"I'm absolutely thrilled," Ms. Alsop said yesterday from a cruise off
the coast of New England. "I'm very honored to be able to be the first
woman to have this position, and I'm hoping it will soon become a
nonissue for the women who follow me."

Deborah Borda, president of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, said that if
the appointment goes through, "it would be a great leap forward and a
significant moment in American musical history."

It would be highly unusual for an orchestra's board to reject the
recommendation of the search committee, which was headed by the board
chairman and included six other board members, as well as orchestral
staff, musicians and an outside consultant. Ms. Alsop's probable
appointment was first reported yesterday in The Baltimore Sun.

Women have led smaller American orchestras, but never one of the 24
largest in the country when ranked by annual operating budgets,
according to Julia Kirchhausen of the American Symphony Orchestra
League. The Baltimore Symphony falls easily within that group, with an
annual budget of $30 million.

Ms. Alsop's appointment would bring to a close a search that began in
December and included an unusually high degree of consultation with
audiences and the larger community. Opinion-canvassing efforts
included three town-hall-style meetings where audience members
discussed what they were looking for in a music director. The
orchestra even hired a research firm to conduct a telephone poll of
residents in the Baltimore area. "People wanted somebody who would be
actively involved in the community, and who could bridge the gap
between audience and performer," said Mr. Glicker, the orchestra's
president and chief executive. "Marin fit those requirements and was
an audience favorite from a survey point of view, and in ticket
sales."

For her part, Ms. Alsop seems eager to build a substantial presence in
Baltimore. Her contract stipulates a 14-week season each year with the
orchestra, longer than Mr. Temirkanov's typical season of 11 to 12
weeks. She spoke of countering the trend of jet-setting maestros, and
embracing an older model of a music director building a major presence
in a city. A native New Yorker, Ms. Alsop cited Leonard Bernstein as
an inspiration for how a conductor can connect with local audiences.
In her own concerts, with the Bournemouth Symphony and with the
Colorado Symphony Orchestra, which she led for 12 years, she has been
known to speak casually with audiences directly from the podium.

Her willingness to be involved with the community would no doubt be
important; Mr. Glicker confirmed that in addition to her artistic work
she would be expected to take a leadership role in fund-raising. The
Baltimore Symphony has been dogged in recent years by fiscal problems,
and after recently opening a second home in North Bethesda, Md., a
suburb of Washington, the orchestra has an accumulated deficit of $12
million projected for 2006.

But Ms. Alsop seemed undaunted by the financial situation. "I look at
it as a moment of opportunity rather than a moment of fear," she said.
"Many orchestras these days are having fiscal problems. To me, that's
the moment not to be conservative and hunker down. It's an opportunity
to take intelligent risks. And make a statement, to really step out
and differentiate yourself from every other orchestra with similar
fiscal problems."

Her plans for the orchestra include taking on more recording projects,
possibly by expanding a relationship she has built with the Naxos
label, which in the fall will release the next installment of her
critically acclaimed Brahms cycle with the London Philharmonic
Orchestra. Mr. Glicker said the orchestra also hopes to increase its
online presence.

"I think it's a moment to assess what's possible, and to take a few
chances, a few calculated risks," Ms. Alsop said. "In every orchestra
I've been music director of, it's all been about calculated risk."
patter
2005-07-16 23:24:43 UTC
Permalink
I think it's about time! She seems to be a fine conductor-i have
enjoyed her Naxos Barber series quite a bit. I wish she had avoided
another Brahms cycle though-there is so much that has not made it to
disc yet...and though her Brahms 1 is a very good recording,there are
many great ones that easily surpass it. How about a complete Roy
Harris symphony cycle!! Now that would be welcome by me!
patter
2005-07-18 19:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Now it appears that the 7 orchestra members in on the choosing of a new
director wish to continue the search till at least Thanksgiving. The
rest(board members,management,consultants,etc) would have Ms. Alsop.
Hmmm...I'd let the Orchestra take more time to hear a few more
contenders if that is going to advantage them. After all-they are the
folks who will be making music with this conductor-not the board. And
it sounds like they think they can do better than Ms. Alsop. They have
some guest-conductors scheduled for the fall...are they looking to one
of these? Who are they?
Sol L. Siegel
2005-07-19 02:26:46 UTC
Permalink
How about a complete Roy Harris symphony cycle!! Now that
would be welcome by me!
And me. Actually, I'd be happy if the CSO would simply reissue
their 2-disc Kubelik set that included the 5th.
a***@aol.com
2005-07-16 23:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Well, the first thing the Baltimore orchestra will notice, if the
appointment goes through, is that their "new" conductor can actually
technically conduct and COUNT.

It means they are going to have to look at her. No one has looked at
Mr Temirkanov for years so far as I know, and with very good reason.
There isn't anything worth looking at.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
j***@aol.com
2005-07-17 18:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Well, the first thing the Baltimore orchestra will notice, if the
appointment goes through, is that their "new" conductor can actually
technically conduct and COUNT.
It means they are going to have to look at her. No one has looked at
Mr Temirkanov for years so far as I know, and with very good reason.
There isn't anything worth looking at.
I wonder what Baltimoreans think of Temirkanov. I've usually found him
to be too slow for my taste, though so many reviewers credit him with
great seriousness and gravitas and great orchestras seem to play very
well for him on record. Perhaps technical ability and counting skill
are overrated qualities in a conductor who works with the best
orchestras?

--Jeff
Henry Fogel
2005-07-17 20:04:32 UTC
Permalink
I can certainly report that the musicicans of the Chicago Symphony
always reported that they enjoyed working with Temirkanov, and respect
him enormously.
patter
2005-07-17 21:53:41 UTC
Permalink
And that's saying quite alot in my book!
GMS
2005-07-18 01:16:20 UTC
Permalink
I can emphatically confirm what Mr. Fogel reports about Mr. Temirkanov.
Maestro Temirkanov's music making with the CSO had a lot of
personality and pizzazz and his rehearsal technique was much admired
and appreciated by my colleagues. Of course, we never worked with him
for more than a week at a time, but based upon what I've seen of him
AND of the preceding Baltimore Director, David Zinman, Ms. Alsop has
some mighty big shoes to fill.

Gary Stucka
Cellist, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
a***@aol.com
2005-07-18 01:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by GMS
I can emphatically confirm what Mr. Fogel reports about Mr. Temirkanov.
Maestro Temirkanov's music making with the CSO had a lot of
personality and pizzazz and his rehearsal technique was much admired
and appreciated by my colleagues. Of course, we never worked with him
for more than a week at a time, but based upon what I've seen of him
AND of the preceding Baltimore Director, David Zinman, Ms. Alsop has
some mighty big shoes to fill.
Gary Stucka
Cellist, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
He must have improved from Prague 1969 then? Glad to hear it.

It's always nice to know they get better isn't it Gary.

It is a learning process, as we all know.

He was not much liked in St Petersburg (aka Leningrad) for firing every
Jew in sight but I assume he is no longer a Party Member and is a lot
more affable? Glad to hear that as well.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
a***@aol.com
2005-07-18 01:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by GMS
I can emphatically confirm what Mr. Fogel reports about Mr. Temirkanov.
Maestro Temirkanov's music making with the CSO had a lot of
personality and pizzazz and his rehearsal technique was much admired
and appreciated by my colleagues. Of course, we never worked with him
for more than a week at a time, but based upon what I've seen of him
AND of the preceding Baltimore Director, David Zinman, Ms. Alsop has
some mighty big shoes to fill.
Gary Stucka
Cellist, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
He must have improved from Prague 1969 then? Glad to hear it.
It's always nice to know they get better isn't it Gary.
It is a learning process, as we all know.
He was not much liked in St Petersburg (aka Leningrad) for firing every
Jew in sight but I assume he is no longer a Party Member and is a lot
more affable? Glad to hear that as well.
PS: He was a bastard when he was a Party Member.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
George Murnu
2005-07-19 03:16:28 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by a***@aol.com
He was not much liked in St Petersburg (aka Leningrad) for firing every
Jew in sight but I assume he is no longer a Party Member and is a lot
more affable? Glad to hear that as well.
PS: He was a bastard when he was a Party Member.
Details, please - on both the firings and the "bastard" thing.

Having said that, I will say that the from concerts that I heard with the
Baltimore Symphony, the orchestra sounds one class better under him than
under any guest conductors that I heard - though I must say no conductors
were really A-list.

Thanks,

George
Post by a***@aol.com
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Richard S. Sandmeyer
2005-07-19 03:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Murnu
[snip]
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by a***@aol.com
He was not much liked in St Petersburg (aka Leningrad) for firing every
Jew in sight but I assume he is no longer a Party Member and is a lot
more affable? Glad to hear that as well.
PS: He was a bastard when he was a Party Member.
Details, please - on both the firings and the "bastard" thing.
Having said that, I will say that the from concerts that I heard with the
Baltimore Symphony, the orchestra sounds one class better under him than
under any guest conductors that I heard - though I must say no conductors
were really A-list.
Thanks,
George
Post by a***@aol.com
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
I go to a fair number of Baltimore Symphony Orchestra concerts each
season (Baltimore being the nearest large city to where I live).

I'd differ slightly with George and say that some of the guest
conductors gave concerts that were the equal of some of Temirkanov's.
For example, Judd, Wigglesworth, Tortelier (the Lenny Leap lives), and
Herbig all gave concerts within the last two or three seasons that were
the equal of many of T's in my opinion. At the other extreme, I've
never heard a bad performance with T on the podium whereas some of the
guest conductors (not those named) have made me wish for the concert to
end quickly.

I hadn't previously heard anything about T's past activities and
reputation in St. Petersburg. I do know the St. Petersburg Philharmonic
played very well for him on the Baltimore stop of their most recent US
tour. That, of course, doesn't mean they like him.
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
j***@aol.com
2005-07-19 07:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
I go to a fair number of Baltimore Symphony Orchestra concerts each
season (Baltimore being the nearest large city to where I live).
I'd differ slightly with George and say that some of the guest
conductors gave concerts that were the equal of some of Temirkanov's.
For example, Judd, Wigglesworth, Tortelier (the Lenny Leap lives), and
Herbig all gave concerts within the last two or three seasons that were
the equal of many of T's in my opinion.
I wouldn't expect anything less of a distinguished group of guest
conductors like that.

--Jeff
George Murnu
2005-07-20 03:19:09 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
I go to a fair number of Baltimore Symphony Orchestra concerts each
season (Baltimore being the nearest large city to where I live).
I'd differ slightly with George and say that some of the guest
conductors gave concerts that were the equal of some of Temirkanov's.
For example, Judd, Wigglesworth, Tortelier (the Lenny Leap lives), and
Herbig all gave concerts within the last two or three seasons that were
the equal of many of T's in my opinion. At the other extreme, I've
never heard a bad performance with T on the podium whereas some of the
guest conductors (not those named) have made me wish for the concert to
end quickly.
I have to say that I did not hear the concerts conducted by Judd and
Wigglesworth. I actually liked the concert that I heard conducted by
Tortelier (saxophone music, Poulenc Gloria) but it did not stick to me as
being particularly memorable; just another good concert. As for the concert
conducted by Herbig, I really liked the way the orchestra sounded in the
last piece - Liszt's Les Preludes - and slightly dissapointed of the rest of
the concert (Egmont Overture, Mozart Oboe conecrt, Tchaikovsky Romeo and
Juliet Overture) and I think I know why: the timpanist in Les Preludes was
Dennis Kain, orchestra's principal; in all the other pieces the timpanist
was the secondary percusionist whose name escapes me. Boy, what a
difference a timpanist can make; IMO Dennis Kain is as good as any timpanist
of more famous orchestras and better than most (the Mozart piece of course
does not require timpany, but there I did not feel that Herbig got the same
warm string sound that Temirkanov gets; need I say that I am looking forward
Temirkanov's all Mozart concert?).
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
I hadn't previously heard anything about T's past activities and
reputation in St. Petersburg. I do know the St. Petersburg Philharmonic
played very well for him on the Baltimore stop of their most recent US
tour. That, of course, doesn't mean they like him.
Correct, and not only then. He was their conductor (in Petersburg I mean)
since 1978 I think, so there must be something good going on backsatge as
well between him and the orchestra.

Having said that, I will mention that even for me some of Temirkanov's
concerts in Baltimore were better that others. One surprising
disappointment for me was Shostakovich 6!!! Another, for which we disagreed
in a different post, was the Symphonie Fantastique.

Regards,

George
Post by Richard S. Sandmeyer
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-07-18 03:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by GMS
I can emphatically confirm what Mr. Fogel reports about Mr. Temirkanov.
Maestro Temirkanov's music making with the CSO had a lot of personality
and pizzazz and his rehearsal technique was much admired and appreciated
by my colleagues. Of course, we never worked with him for more than a
week at a time, but based upon what I've seen of him AND of the preceding
Baltimore Director, David Zinman, Ms. Alsop has some mighty big shoes to
fill.
The piccolo player of the Baltimore SO used to be on CompuServe's MUSICA
Forum years ago, and from what she wrote it was obvious that the orchestra
loved Zinman and was sorry to see him leave.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
GMS
2005-07-18 04:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Yes, David Zinman is the real thing. I personally wish we could get
him for Chicago.

Gary Stucka
Cellist, Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-07-18 05:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by GMS
Yes, David Zinman is the real thing. I personally wish we could get
him for Chicago.
When I was doing my graduate musicology work at the University of Minnesota
back in the early 1980s, he was one of two "golden boys who made good" that
they were still talking about. The other was Daniel Chorzempa.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
David Royko
2005-07-18 18:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by GMS
Yes, David Zinman is the real thing. I personally wish we could get
him for Chicago.
25 or so years ago, IIRC, Zinman was a frequent presence at the Grant
Park SO concerts here in Chicago--was he music director at the time? I
thought he was a fine musician. I recall a particularly memorable
Eroica, for one.

Dave Royko
==========
Dave Royko's Self-Promotion Department:
My book, "Voices of Children of Divorce,"
is in paperback at Amazon.com (and elsewhere):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312254695
My CD-R trading list (jazz, bluegrass/newgrass, classical), some of
my more recent reviews & articles, and a few other things are at:
http://www.geocities.com/davidroyko/mypage.html
b***@phillynews.com
2005-07-18 03:46:21 UTC
Permalink
The one time I saw him conduct live , with the Philadelphia Orchestra,
he led an absolutely thrilling performance of the Shostakovich seventh.
It was probably one of the handfull of best concert performances I've
ever heard. He's returning for the first time since then this fall. I'm
looking forward to it.

Barry
b***@phillynews.com
2005-07-18 03:53:36 UTC
Permalink
Barry:
<<<The one time I saw him conduct live , with the Philadelphia
Orchestra, >>>

"Him" being Temirkanov.
Sol L. Siegel
2005-07-19 02:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@phillynews.com
<<<The one time I saw him conduct live , with the Philadelphia
Orchestra, >>>
"Him" being Temirkanov.
He's always done well in Philly - among many other things, he's one of
the few who can consistently balance the orchestral choirs in the
Academy of Music.
Vaneyes
2005-07-19 02:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Well, the first thing the Baltimore orchestra will notice, if the
appointment goes through, is that their "new" conductor can actually
technically conduct and COUNT.
It means they are going to have to look at her. No one has looked at
Mr Temirkanov for years so far as I know, and with very good reason.
There isn't anything worth looking at.
It was a lame/fixed search, when outgoing Temirkanov hogs the 2005/06
calendar. Glicker had said the candidates would be in that calendar. If
you look at what filled those bills--Temirkanov, Herbig, Graf, Kalmer,
Alsop...there was only one candidate. Alsop.

Regards
a***@aol.com
2005-07-19 10:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vaneyes
Post by a***@aol.com
Well, the first thing the Baltimore orchestra will notice, if the
appointment goes through, is that their "new" conductor can actually
technically conduct and COUNT.
It means they are going to have to look at her. No one has looked at
Mr Temirkanov for years so far as I know, and with very good reason.
There isn't anything worth looking at.
It was a lame/fixed search, when outgoing Temirkanov hogs the 2005/06
calendar. Glicker had said the candidates would be in that calendar. If
you look at what filled those bills--Temirkanov, Herbig, Graf, Kalmer,
Alsop...there was only one candidate. Alsop.
Regards
According to this article in the Washington Post, 90 per cent of the
orchestra are against her appointment..........


Where Is the Ms. in Maestro?

By Tim Page

The board of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra will meet this morning to
decide whether to appoint Marin Alsop as the ensemble's 12th music
director. Whatever decision is made, it is likely to leave bruised
feelings within the orchestra and throughout the tightly knit world of
classical music.

To view the entire article, go to
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR2005071801496.html?


Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Donald Patterson
2005-07-19 19:46:55 UTC
Permalink
On 7/19/05 6:50 AM, in article
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Vaneyes
Post by a***@aol.com
Well, the first thing the Baltimore orchestra will notice, if the
appointment goes through, is that their "new" conductor can actually
technically conduct and COUNT.
It means they are going to have to look at her. No one has looked at
Mr Temirkanov for years so far as I know, and with very good reason.
There isn't anything worth looking at.
It was a lame/fixed search, when outgoing Temirkanov hogs the 2005/06
calendar. Glicker had said the candidates would be in that calendar. If
you look at what filled those bills--Temirkanov, Herbig, Graf, Kalmer,
Alsop...there was only one candidate. Alsop.
Regards
According to this article in the Washington Post, 90 per cent of the
orchestra are against her appointment..........
Where Is the Ms. in Maestro?
You make it appear as though she's being slighted because she is a woman.
Did it occur to you that many of the musicians in the orchestra are women as
well? Furthermore, being in the arts, they are very likely to see things
from a liberal point of view and would support the appointment of a
qualified woman to the post.

I've heard excellent reports of Ms. Alsop's work, though I haven't heard any
of her CDs. I haven't been purposely avoiding them. It's just that at this
stage in my collecting, I have fine recordings of everything she's recorded
so far that would interest me. I think it's time I sought some of them out.
--
Don Patterson
Trombonist
Arranger/Copyist
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band
a***@aol.com
2005-07-19 20:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donald Patterson
You make it appear as though she's being slighted because she is a woman.
Did it occur to you that many of the musicians in the orchestra are women as
well? Furthermore, being in the arts, they are very likely to see things
from a liberal point of view and would support the appointment of a
qualified woman to the post.
I've heard excellent reports of Ms. Alsop's work, though I haven't heard any
of her CDs. I haven't been purposely avoiding them. It's just that at this
stage in my collecting, I have fine recordings of everything she's recorded
so far that would interest me. I think it's time I sought some of them out.
--
Don Patterson
Trombonist
Arranger/Copyist
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band
I don't know if you were referring to me because there are two messages
here but I merely posted the Washington Post link which, if true, is
specifically a lot more critical than the other report. The line
"Where is the Ms in Maestro?" is the Washington Post headline, not a
comment by me.

I do not know the circumstances and I am certainly not suggesting that
any criticisms are because she is a woman. I have played for her only
once - Petroushka - and I enjoyed that and thought she was very
competent, particularly on matters of balance. Clear beat, knew the
score backwards.

I understand that many of the Bournemouth players like her and I
believe some of her recordings with them have been well received. My
one gig was fine and I thought she knew what she was doing which is
always an encouraging start, I have found.

I've never been asked to select a conductor in my life and I think it's
too late now! It is a fascinating situation to observe from the
outside because my experience has been, in many cases, that you won't
find agreement within the orchestra about a particular artist. It may
even depend on what instrument (s) the orchestral member plays. I
know a conductor who is beloved by string sections because he always
wants a "lot" from them and tends to favour their sound so they may be
more enthusiastic than others.

One never knows how much to believe of Press reports in any case.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Raymond Hall
2005-07-20 02:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donald Patterson
On 7/19/05 6:50 AM, in article
I've heard excellent reports of Ms. Alsop's work, though I haven't heard any
of her CDs. I haven't been purposely avoiding them. It's just that at this
stage in my collecting, I have fine recordings of everything she's recorded
so far that would interest me. I think it's time I sought some of them out.
Her Glass symphonies Nos.2 and 3, and her Adams' Shaker Loops, Wound
dresser, etc, are seriously good. With the BSO (Bournemouth of course). Much
of her Barber is very good as well, but many will have trodden this path
with already recorded material.

Ray H
Taree
Donald Patterson
2005-07-20 02:49:44 UTC
Permalink
On 7/19/05 10:06 PM, in article
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Donald Patterson
On 7/19/05 6:50 AM, in article
I've heard excellent reports of Ms. Alsop's work, though I haven't heard any
of her CDs. I haven't been purposely avoiding them. It's just that at this
stage in my collecting, I have fine recordings of everything she's recorded
so far that would interest me. I think it's time I sought some of them out.
Her Glass symphonies Nos.2 and 3, and her Adams' Shaker Loops, Wound
dresser, etc, are seriously good. With the BSO (Bournemouth of course). Much
of her Barber is very good as well, but many will have trodden this path
with already recorded material.
Ray H
Taree
Exactly Ray. I have plenty of Barber and very little shelf room left.

I have absolutely NO interest in anything composed by Phillip Blahs. John
Adams, I may be like to hear.
--
Don Patterson
Trombonist
Arranger/Copyist
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band
j***@aol.com
2005-07-20 03:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Donald Patterson
On 7/19/05 6:50 AM, in article
I've heard excellent reports of Ms. Alsop's work, though I haven't heard any
of her CDs. I haven't been purposely avoiding them. It's just that at this
stage in my collecting, I have fine recordings of everything she's recorded
so far that would interest me. I think it's time I sought some of them out.
Her Glass symphonies Nos.2 and 3, and her Adams' Shaker Loops, Wound
dresser, etc, are seriously good. With the BSO (Bournemouth of course). Much
of her Barber is very good as well, but many will have trodden this path
with already recorded material.
You're scaring me, Ray. If Glass and Adams are her strong suit, then
woe be Baltimore. She's got to do well with better music or nobody will
go to the concerts. Glass and Adams are a provocative contrast, the way
a Skidmore, Owings and Merrill glass box from the '60s used to be a
fresh contrast to a row of neogothic and Beaux Arts palaces. The
contrast was nice, but too much and the effect became a blight of
blandness.

Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.

--Jeff
Raymond Hall
2005-07-20 03:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
You're scaring me, Ray. If Glass and Adams are her strong suit, then
woe be Baltimore. She's got to do well with better music or nobody will
go to the concerts. Glass and Adams are a provocative contrast, the way
a Skidmore, Owings and Merrill glass box from the '60s used to be a
fresh contrast to a row of neogothic and Beaux Arts palaces. The
contrast was nice, but too much and the effect became a blight of
blandness.
To be honest, the Glass symphonies are much better than you might think. I'd
at least try hearing them. They are not bad by a long chalk, and well
constructed. Not simply the usual stuff associated with a lot of early
Glass. The Adams is very good too, and is possibly the better composer, from
several ways of looking at it.
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
She has completed a Barber series, done Bernstein's Chichester Psalms, and
has recently embarked upon, (A BRAHMS cycle), the 1st symphony which is a
broadly lyrical, attentive to some detail, expansive approach. Doesn't beat
Walter at white heat in the 1st movement however, but then neither does
anyone else.

Sure, Ms Alsop prefers (at least recording) more contemporary music, and
maybe because of that, she and the Baltimore SO will not be well suited. If
I were her, and heard the reports of several of her, and the orchestras
comments on actual performances, I'd tell them where to go.
<g>


Ray H
Taree
j***@aol.com
2005-07-20 04:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by j***@aol.com
You're scaring me, Ray. If Glass and Adams are her strong suit, then
woe be Baltimore. She's got to do well with better music or nobody will
go to the concerts. Glass and Adams are a provocative contrast, the way
a Skidmore, Owings and Merrill glass box from the '60s used to be a
fresh contrast to a row of neogothic and Beaux Arts palaces. The
contrast was nice, but too much and the effect became a blight of
blandness.
To be honest, the Glass symphonies are much better than you might think. I'd
at least try hearing them. They are not bad by a long chalk, and well
constructed. Not simply the usual stuff associated with a lot of early
Glass. The Adams is very good too, and is possibly the better composer, from
several ways of looking at it.
You had me for a moment there, but then you said "Adams...is possibly
the better composer", and I realized that latter-day Glass is beneath
my contempt, since Adams' music has earned nothing but. We simply
disagree on these two (and probably much of the minimalist legacy),
much as we both like lots of other contemporary music. I refuse to hold
this against you or Alsop.
Post by Raymond Hall
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
She has completed a Barber series, done Bernstein's Chichester Psalms, and
has recently embarked upon, (A BRAHMS cycle), the 1st symphony which is a
broadly lyrical, attentive to some detail, expansive approach. Doesn't beat
Walter at white heat in the 1st movement however, but then neither does
anyone else.
I wish I could dig out her Tchaikovsky for another try, but it is
buried in a box somewhere. Suffice to say, her Barber seems fine, but
it doesn't convince me that I will like her Brahms or her Beethoven.
Compare the recorded legacy you've just mentioned to the legacy that
Zinman and Temirkanov brought to the job. If we're going on records
alone, Alsop is simply not in the same league. We don't know enough to
judge her on this basis, so I prefer not to.
Post by Raymond Hall
Sure, Ms Alsop prefers (at least recording) more contemporary music, and
maybe because of that, she and the Baltimore SO will not be well suited. If
I were her, and heard the reports of several of her, and the orchestras
comments on actual performances, I'd tell them where to go.
<g>
I think I would too. She should be too proud to tolerate that kind of
public criticism. However...don't get the idea that the BSO (whoops,
sue me Boston) isn't interested in new music. They did their fair share
with Zinman and apparently want to do more. Now, if it's Glass and
Adams, I can see why they're cringing....

--Jeff
Allen
2005-07-20 14:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Raymond Hall wrote:

<snip>
Post by Raymond Hall
She has completed a Barber series, done Bernstein's Chichester Psalms,
I haven't yet heard any of her Barber, but in my opinion her Chichester
Psalms is the equal of Bernstein's CBS (or its nom du jour) and better
than his DG. Others may have different opinions. Incidentally,
Chichester is my favorite Bernstein work.
Allen

and
Post by Raymond Hall
has recently embarked upon, (A BRAHMS cycle), the 1st symphony which is a
broadly lyrical, attentive to some detail, expansive approach. Doesn't beat
Walter at white heat in the 1st movement however, but then neither does
anyone else.
Sure, Ms Alsop prefers (at least recording) more contemporary music, and
maybe because of that, she and the Baltimore SO will not be well suited. If
I were her, and heard the reports of several of her, and the orchestras
comments on actual performances, I'd tell them where to go.
<g>
Ray H
Taree
Al Eisner
2005-07-21 00:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
Certaintly the Cabrillo Festival covers a range of styles, from
"modernistic" to minimalist to even a bit of old-fashioned Americana
(for example, a rip-roaring performance of Virgil Thomson's "The River",
accompnying a showing of the film -- the less said about the hokey
narration the better). I've been impressed in the few concerts I've
attended both by her conducting and by her personality. The highlight --
in that same concert as the Thomson -- was a coherent and effective
performance of Lou Harrison's "Rapunzel". (That's as much as I can
say, not having heard any other performance of it.) I've also been
impressed by what I've heard of her Barber recordings.

How she is in "the classics" I have no idea.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
j***@aol.com
2005-07-21 02:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
Certaintly the Cabrillo Festival covers a range of styles, from
"modernistic" to minimalist to even a bit of old-fashioned Americana
(for example, a rip-roaring performance of Virgil Thomson's "The River",
accompnying a showing of the film -- the less said about the hokey
narration the better). I've been impressed in the few concerts I've
attended both by her conducting and by her personality. The highlight --
in that same concert as the Thomson -- was a coherent and effective
performance of Lou Harrison's "Rapunzel". (That's as much as I can
say, not having heard any other performance of it.) I've also been
impressed by what I've heard of her Barber recordings.
How she is in "the classics" I have no idea.
I think back to the NSO under Rostropovich. Sure he could do Russian
music (and some Romantics, like good Mahler and Sibelius, actually),
but all the "cognescenti" thought he was terrible with the majority of
the classical repertoire. But it didn't matter because everybody else
saw an international star who conducted heart-on-the-sleeve, and that
made for a good show. Even if Alsop is no good with Beethoven etc., she
can have guest conductors take care of it, and when she can't, very few
people will care or complain. They'll talk about her Stravinsky and her
Barber and her Harrison and her Adams whatever else she decides to
focus on.

--Jeff
Jim Haynes
2005-07-22 21:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Certaintly the Cabrillo Festival covers a range of styles, from
"modernistic" to minimalist to even a bit of old-fashioned Americana
(for example, a rip-roaring performance of Virgil Thomson's "The River",
accompnying a showing of the film -- the less said about the hokey
And I count it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience to have seen and heard
her performance of the music for Chaplin's "City Lights" as the film was
shown.

I've heard the Thompson music for The River several times but had never
seen the movie until the Cabrillo festival. And I had seen City Lights
several times but never with a live orchestra, and probably never will
again.
--
jhhaynes at earthlink dot net
Al Eisner
2005-07-22 19:51:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
It's easy enough to check on the Bournemouth S.O. website. It's true
she has Adams scheduled on a concert in London next week, but it's the
minor item in a program consisting mainly of Corigliano and Prokofiv).
And her fall conducting schedule has nary a minimalist on it -- just
classics, with the twentieth century represented by such as Tippett and
Copland.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
a***@aol.com
2005-07-22 20:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
It's easy enough to check on the Bournemouth S.O. website. It's true
she has Adams scheduled on a concert in London next week, but it's the
minor item in a program consisting mainly of Corigliano and Prokofiv).
And her fall conducting schedule has nary a minimalist on it -- just
classics, with the twentieth century represented by such as Tippett and
Copland.
--
She is showcasing her other BSO I think. If it helps, which I doubt,
the Tippett Ritual Dances and the Prokofiev R & J are two of the
toughest pieces around and the Corigliano no walkover either (world
premiere, Baltimore Symphony, which may or not be apt).

All three a bloody sight harder to play than any minimalists I have
played so far.

Kind regards,
SimpleRepetitionsRUs
Raymond Hall
2005-07-22 23:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by j***@aol.com
Actually I think Alsop's record with contemporary music at Cabrillo,
for instance, suggests she has good (or at least venturesome) taste in
new music. And I don't think Bournemouth would stand her if all she did
was minimalist-inspired note-spinning.
It's easy enough to check on the Bournemouth S.O. website. It's true
she has Adams scheduled on a concert in London next week, but it's the
minor item in a program consisting mainly of Corigliano and Prokofiv).
And her fall conducting schedule has nary a minimalist on it -- just
classics, with the twentieth century represented by such as Tippett and
Copland.
God save us all from minimalists. Especially nary ones.

Sheesh kebabs.

Ray H
Taree

Ward Hardman
2005-07-19 20:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
To view the entire article, go to
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR200...
Two observations:

1. The article referred to the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra as the
"BSO." Given the ferocity with which the Boston Symphony Orchestra
defends its old recordings from being released by others, it's to be
expected that the Baltimore (and/or Tim Page/Washington Post) will soon
get a letter from the Boston's attorneys.

2. The musicians complain that the technical skills of Miss Alsop are
not enough to take them to a higher level. Was it the New York Phil
that once told a visiting conductor who had spent so much rehearsal
time on one work that he had run out of time for rehearsing Brahms'
First, "That's OK. Whose performance do you want, Walter's or
Stokowski's?"? It sounds like the Baltimore SO hasn't built up a
tradition of performance style or else has such a high level of
turnover that they can't ask "Zinman's or Temirkanov's?"


--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
Citizen
2005-07-20 03:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Speaking of the "BSO," it reminds me that Boston-area cultural
institutions try to gain acronym exclusivity all the time: the Museum
of Fine Arts, Boston is simply known as MFA, and the Museum of Science,
Boston is simply known as MOS. They use these acronyms for their
websites, too.
Richard Schultz
2005-07-20 04:36:11 UTC
Permalink
In rec.music.classical.recordings Citizen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
: Speaking of the "BSO," it reminds me that Boston-area cultural
: institutions try to gain acronym exclusivity all the time: the Museum
: of Fine Arts, Boston is simply known as MFA, and the Museum of Science,
: Boston is simply known as MOS. They use these acronyms for their
: websites, too.

Not only their cultural institutions. When Pittsburgh extended their
streetcar lines to include an underground section in the downtown area,
they decided for some bizarre reason to call the new subway "The T." You
can be sure that they heard from Boston about *that* one.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
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