Discussion:
TZIGANE...
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MELMOTH
2021-04-07 13:21:19 UTC
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This violinistic firework has very often been honored on recordings, in
its various configurations...Versions with orchestra (which ended up
imposing itself in front of the original violin (Lutheran, with
sonorities close to those of the cymbalum)/piano duet), which will have
the privilege of appearing at the top of MY CHOICES...
I will retain only 8 recordings, among the hundred of my
collection...And I will be brief, for once...I am tired...Too many
sleepless nights, you see...And I am not young anymore, eh...

In ascending order of interest :

*KYUNG WHA CHUNG* (Decca 1979)...Too declamatory for my taste...Even if
the orchestral accompaniment of Dutoit (a conductor I have never, but
then NEVER liked!) is satisfactory...But there is no imagination (yet
Dutoit is quite skillful, in Ravel, usually)...

*ITZHAK PERLMAN* (EMI 1974)...Fast...StraightforwardAccompaniment
uneven and imprecise (yet it is a great specialist of French music :
Jean Martinon)...

*MICHAEL RABIN* (Testament 1957)...Tonic...Elegant...But very little
fantasy...

*ZINO FRANCESCATTI* (Sony 1965)...One of my favorite violinists,
familiar with this score...Fast, spontaneous, demonstrative...Lenny's
flamboyant accompaniment...But slight lack of nuances...

*FRANK PETER ZIMMERMANN* (Warner 1990)...Panache...Lyricism...Intense
and natural...(the conductor Gianluigi Gelmetti is not well known)...

*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...But
here, what a lesson of style!...Impressive virtuosity...Alas, the
orchestra and its conductor (Remoortel, well forgotten) are of a
rheumatic heaviness...

*ISAAC STERN* (Sony 1957)...I heard him in 1967 (as an encore!) at the
Tivoli in Copenhagen, when I was completely drunk after a visit to the
Tuborg factories!)...Passionate and generous bow...In total osmosis
with a masterly orchestra (Ormandy/Philadelphia)...

And finally, he is also one of my favorite violinists:

*CHRISTIAN FERRAS* (Decca 1953)...Yes...I know...Still "cave"
artists...(George Sebastian is also a well forgotten conductor, great
Mahlerian before the eternal)...But what do you want... The freedom of
tone...The fantasy...The rhapsodic commitment...The ardent
sensitivity...We are on the highest peaks, there...I can't help it if
we have probably never done better, eh...

I have discarded dozens of
recordings...Grumiaux/Fournet/Rosenthal...Oistrakh/Kondrachine...Haendel/Ancerl...Amoyal/Jordan...Accardo/Abbado...Repin/Nagano...Capuçon/Harding...Dumay/Rosenthal
etc...Etc...
Herman
2021-04-07 13:39:24 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
This violinistic firework has very often been honored on recordings, in
its various configurations...Versions with orchestra (which ended up
imposing itself in front of the original violin (Lutheran, with
sonorities close to those of the cymbalum)/piano duet), which will have
the privilege of appearing at the top of MY CHOICES...
I will retain only 8 recordings, among the hundred of my
collection...And I will be brief, for once...I am tired...Too many
sleepless nights, you see...And I am not young anymore, eh...
*KYUNG WHA CHUNG* (Decca 1979)...Too declamatory for my taste...Even if
the orchestral accompaniment of Dutoit (a conductor I have never, but
then NEVER liked!) is satisfactory...But there is no imagination (yet
Dutoit is quite skillful, in Ravel, usually)...
*ITZHAK PERLMAN* (EMI 1974)...Fast...StraightforwardAccompaniment
Jean Martinon)...
*MICHAEL RABIN* (Testament 1957)...Tonic...Elegant...But very little
fantasy...
*ZINO FRANCESCATTI* (Sony 1965)...One of my favorite violinists,
familiar with this score...Fast, spontaneous, demonstrative...Lenny's
flamboyant accompaniment...But slight lack of nuances...
*FRANK PETER ZIMMERMANN* (Warner 1990)...Panache...Lyricism...Intense
and natural...(the conductor Gianluigi Gelmetti is not well known)...
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!).
Herman
2021-04-07 13:41:34 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
JohnGavin
2021-04-07 13:56:00 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by MELMOTH
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
Just one Szeryng recording struck me as not so good - the Kreisler LP on Mercury. Much too straight-laced, rubato-less und unsmiling.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-04-07 20:31:47 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by MELMOTH
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
Just one Szeryng recording struck me as not so good - the Kreisler LP on Mercury. Much too straight-laced, rubato-less und unsmiling.
Another word for Szeryng's playing is "patrician" - in contrast to the plebian tendencies of some other violinists. ;-)
MELMOTH
2021-04-07 15:02:57 UTC
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Post by Herman
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
es, I know it well!...
But Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
Herman
2021-04-07 18:39:46 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Herman
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
es, I know it well!...
But Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
This has all the hallmarks of a spurious anecdote, like so many musical anecdotes this most likely never happened.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-04-07 20:37:18 UTC
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On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 8:03:01 AM UTC-7, MELMOTH wrote:

. . . Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
Post by MELMOTH
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
This certainly doesn't strike me as something which Menuhin, with his generosity of spirit, would say. OTOH, I DID hear Perlman tell exactly this same story (without any reference to Menuhin). I should have asked my teacher, who was Menuhin's accompanist during and just after WWII, about this. In any case, it's a cheap disparagement.
Frank Berger
2021-04-07 20:46:29 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
. . . Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
Post by MELMOTH
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
This certainly doesn't strike me as something which Menuhin, with his generosity of spirit, would say.
Is that statement necessarily disparagement?



OTOH, I DID hear Perlman tell exactly this same story (without any reference to Menuhin). I should have asked my teacher, who was Menuhin's accompanist during and just after WWII, about this. In any case, it's a cheap disparagement.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-04-08 18:09:12 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by Chris from Lafayette
. . . Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
Post by MELMOTH
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
This certainly doesn't strike me as something which Menuhin, with his generosity of spirit, would say.
Is that statement necessarily disparagement?
Not necessarily, but likely IMHO. It certainly reads to me as being on the catty side. Of course it's hard to tell for sure.
Frank Berger
2021-04-08 19:35:45 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Chris from Lafayette
. . . Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
Post by MELMOTH
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
This certainly doesn't strike me as something which Menuhin, with his generosity of spirit, would say.
Is that statement necessarily disparagement?
Not necessarily, but likely IMHO. It certainly reads to me as being on the catty side. Of course it's hard to tell for sure.
Making this up: Szigeti is a perfect violinist. All others have imperfections which are characteristic and recognizable. Absent those it must be Szigeti.

Or not.
Herman
2021-04-08 20:02:36 UTC
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Making this up: Szigeti is a perfect violinist. All others have imperfections which are characteristic and recognizable. Absent those it must be Szigeti.
Szeryng
Frank Berger
2021-04-08 21:31:39 UTC
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Post by Herman
Making this up: Szigeti is a perfect violinist. All others have imperfections which are characteristic and recognizable. Absent those it must be Szigeti.
Szeryng
Szeryng, Schmering. They all look alike to me.
Dan Koren
2021-05-04 04:46:51 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Herman
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
es, I know it well!...
But Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
Menuhin was more than a little jealous. And
the notion Szeryng's sounds and style were
not recognizable by professional violinists
is beyond ridiculous. Szeryng was simply
the best of all.

dk
Dan Koren
2021-05-04 04:48:58 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by Herman
Szeryng's reputation has always been very high.
es, I know it well!...
But Menuhin used to say that when he and his fellow violinists couldn't
recognize the style of the violinist playing on the radio, they would
automatically deduce Szeryng... And they were almost always right!...
Menuhin was more than a little jealous. And
the notion Szeryng's sound and style were
not recognizable by professional violinists
is beyond ridiculous. Szeryng was simply
the best of all.

dk

Frank Lekens
2021-04-13 19:17:52 UTC
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Let me topquote for a change.

How about Kopatchinskaja?


(Two young violinists discussing this performance her:


Incidentally, she can be heard playing two Beethoven violin sonatas live
tomorrow afternoon on BBC 3. Eager to hear that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v2z7
--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/
Post by MELMOTH
This violinistic firework has very often been honored on recordings, in
its various configurations...Versions with orchestra (which ended up
imposing itself in front of the original violin (Lutheran, with
sonorities close to those of the cymbalum)/piano duet), which will have
the privilege of appearing at the top of MY CHOICES...
I will retain only 8 recordings, among the hundred of my
collection...And I will be brief, for once...I am tired...Too many
sleepless nights, you see...And I am not young anymore, eh...
*KYUNG WHA CHUNG* (Decca 1979)...Too declamatory for my taste...Even if
the orchestral accompaniment of Dutoit (a conductor I have never, but
then NEVER liked!) is satisfactory...But there is no imagination (yet
Dutoit is quite skillful, in Ravel, usually)...
*ITZHAK PERLMAN* (EMI 1974)...Fast...StraightforwardAccompaniment uneven
and imprecise (yet it is a great specialist of French music : Jean
Martinon)...
*MICHAEL RABIN* (Testament 1957)...Tonic...Elegant...But very little
fantasy...
*ZINO FRANCESCATTI* (Sony 1965)...One of my favorite violinists,
familiar with this score...Fast, spontaneous, demonstrative...Lenny's
flamboyant accompaniment...But slight lack of nuances...
*FRANK PETER ZIMMERMANN* (Warner 1990)...Panache...Lyricism...Intense
and natural...(the conductor Gianluigi Gelmetti is not well known)...
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...But
here, what a lesson of style!...Impressive virtuosity...Alas, the
orchestra and its conductor (Remoortel, well forgotten) are of a
rheumatic heaviness...
*ISAAC STERN* (Sony 1957)...I heard him in 1967 (as an encore!) at the
Tivoli in Copenhagen, when I was completely drunk after a visit to the
Tuborg factories!)...Passionate and generous bow...In total osmosis with
a masterly orchestra (Ormandy/Philadelphia)...
*CHRISTIAN FERRAS* (Decca 1953)...Yes...I know...Still "cave"
artists...(George Sebastian is also a well forgotten conductor, great
Mahlerian before the eternal)...But what do you want... The freedom of
tone...The fantasy...The rhapsodic commitment...The ardent
sensitivity...We are on the highest peaks, there...I can't help it if we
have probably never done better, eh...
I have discarded dozens of
recordings...Grumiaux/Fournet/Rosenthal...Oistrakh/Kondrachine...Haendel/Ancerl...Amoyal/Jordan...Accardo/Abbado...Repin/Nagano...Capuçon/Harding...Dumay/Rosenthal
etc...Etc...
Vanessa Lann
2021-04-14 07:29:48 UTC
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I think Patricia Kopatchinskaja is one of the best violinists ever.
Her Beethoven on the BBC today will certainly be exciting and refreshing.

I've written music for her on commission ('O Whispering Suns') and worked with her several times on music of mine originally commissioned by other violinists ('Springs Eternal', etc.).
Not only her sublime interpretations and technique and energy and passion and creativity and intelligence, but also the originality and individuality that she brings to music of this century as well as music of great composers from centuries ago.

Plus, she introduced me to my husband, so I have a special gratitude on top of the musical reasons to love her so much.

These guys discussing her Tzigane in the second video are, like, so -------

Vanessa Lann
www.lann.dds.nl
Post by Frank Lekens
Let me topquote for a change.
How about Kopatchinskaja?
http://youtu.be/w0ObgSKBqTQ
http://youtu.be/H0JUD_Pj140
Incidentally, she can be heard playing two Beethoven violin sonatas live
tomorrow afternoon on BBC 3. Eager to hear that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v2z7
--
Frank Lekens
http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/
Post by MELMOTH
This violinistic firework has very often been honored on recordings, in
its various configurations...Versions with orchestra (which ended up
imposing itself in front of the original violin (Lutheran, with
sonorities close to those of the cymbalum)/piano duet), which will have
the privilege of appearing at the top of MY CHOICES...
I will retain only 8 recordings, among the hundred of my
collection...And I will be brief, for once...I am tired...Too many
sleepless nights, you see...And I am not young anymore, eh...
*KYUNG WHA CHUNG* (Decca 1979)...Too declamatory for my taste...Even if
the orchestral accompaniment of Dutoit (a conductor I have never, but
then NEVER liked!) is satisfactory...But there is no imagination (yet
Dutoit is quite skillful, in Ravel, usually)...
*ITZHAK PERLMAN* (EMI 1974)...Fast...StraightforwardAccompaniment uneven
and imprecise (yet it is a great specialist of French music : Jean
Martinon)...
*MICHAEL RABIN* (Testament 1957)...Tonic...Elegant...But very little
fantasy...
*ZINO FRANCESCATTI* (Sony 1965)...One of my favorite violinists,
familiar with this score...Fast, spontaneous, demonstrative...Lenny's
flamboyant accompaniment...But slight lack of nuances...
*FRANK PETER ZIMMERMANN* (Warner 1990)...Panache...Lyricism...Intense
and natural...(the conductor Gianluigi Gelmetti is not well known)...
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...But
here, what a lesson of style!...Impressive virtuosity...Alas, the
orchestra and its conductor (Remoortel, well forgotten) are of a
rheumatic heaviness...
*ISAAC STERN* (Sony 1957)...I heard him in 1967 (as an encore!) at the
Tivoli in Copenhagen, when I was completely drunk after a visit to the
Tuborg factories!)...Passionate and generous bow...In total osmosis with
a masterly orchestra (Ormandy/Philadelphia)...
*CHRISTIAN FERRAS* (Decca 1953)...Yes...I know...Still "cave"
artists...(George Sebastian is also a well forgotten conductor, great
Mahlerian before the eternal)...But what do you want... The freedom of
tone...The fantasy...The rhapsodic commitment...The ardent
sensitivity...We are on the highest peaks, there...I can't help it if we
have probably never done better, eh...
I have discarded dozens of
recordings...Grumiaux/Fournet/Rosenthal...Oistrakh/Kondrachine...Haendel/Ancerl...Amoyal/Jordan...Accardo/Abbado...Repin/Nagano...Capuçon/Harding...Dumay/Rosenthal
etc...Etc...
Owen
2021-04-14 15:58:43 UTC
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Post by Vanessa Lann
I think Patricia Kopatchinskaja is one of the best violinists ever.
Her Beethoven on the BBC today will certainly be exciting and refreshing.
I've written music for her on commission ('O Whispering Suns') and worked with her several times on music of mine originally commissioned by other violinists ('Springs Eternal', etc.).
Not only her sublime interpretations and technique and energy and passion and creativity and intelligence, but also the originality and individuality that she brings to music of this century as well as music of great composers from centuries ago.
Plus, she introduced me to my husband, so I have a special gratitude on top of the musical reasons to love her so much.
These guys discussing her Tzigane in the second video are, like, so -------
Vanessa Lann
www.lann.dds.nl
Post by Frank Lekens
Let me topquote for a change.
How about Kopatchinskaja?
http://youtu.be/w0ObgSKBqTQ
http://youtu.be/H0JUD_Pj140
Incidentally, she can be heard playing two Beethoven violin sonatas live
tomorrow afternoon on BBC 3. Eager to hear that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v2z7
--
Frank Lekens
What energy she has! I wish I had half her energy! There's also a good
documentary of her at:


It's been said by somebody, not sure if it was Glenn Gould or Toscanini,
that "tradition" is "100 years of bad performances." PK is not traditional.

It's interesting that both PK and Gould went non-traditional in
different directions. PK has moved to freedom of expression, and Gould
moved to asceticism that broke tradition.

-Owen

P.S. Also, she doesn't hum.

-O
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-04-15 02:42:03 UTC
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Post by Owen
Post by Vanessa Lann
I think Patricia Kopatchinskaja is one of the best violinists ever.
Her Beethoven on the BBC today will certainly be exciting and refreshing.
It's interesting that both PK and Gould went non-traditional in
different directions. PK has moved to freedom of expression, and Gould
moved to asceticism that broke tradition.
-Owen
P.S. Also, she doesn't hum.
I've also noted that she plays in bare feet. As she said, if she were to wear shoes she would take off.

Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Lekens
2021-04-16 07:44:17 UTC
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Yes, I think she's terrific. I absolutely love the recordings of hers
that I've heard and the one recital I attended -- and I'd love to hear
her again. (Here in Amsterdam, preferrably.)

She herself didn't seem really to mind that YT discussion (they
ironically accuse her of trolling, while actually being a bit of a pair
of trolls themselves, of course), she responded to it in good spirit on
her own Facebook page.
Post by Vanessa Lann
I think Patricia Kopatchinskaja is one of the best violinists ever.
Her Beethoven on the BBC today will certainly be exciting and refreshing.
I've written music for her on commission ('O Whispering Suns') and worked with her several times on music of mine originally commissioned by other violinists ('Springs Eternal', etc.).
Not only her sublime interpretations and technique and energy and passion and creativity and intelligence, but also the originality and individuality that she brings to music of this century as well as music of great composers from centuries ago.
Plus, she introduced me to my husband, so I have a special gratitude on top of the musical reasons to love her so much.
These guys discussing her Tzigane in the second video are, like, so -------
Vanessa Lann
www.lann.dds.nl
Post by Frank Lekens
Let me topquote for a change.
How about Kopatchinskaja?
http://youtu.be/w0ObgSKBqTQ
http://youtu.be/H0JUD_Pj140
Incidentally, she can be heard playing two Beethoven violin sonatas live
tomorrow afternoon on BBC 3. Eager to hear that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000v2z7
--
Frank Lekens
http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/
Post by MELMOTH
This violinistic firework has very often been honored on recordings, in
its various configurations...Versions with orchestra (which ended up
imposing itself in front of the original violin (Lutheran, with
sonorities close to those of the cymbalum)/piano duet), which will have
the privilege of appearing at the top of MY CHOICES...
I will retain only 8 recordings, among the hundred of my
collection...And I will be brief, for once...I am tired...Too many
sleepless nights, you see...And I am not young anymore, eh...
*KYUNG WHA CHUNG* (Decca 1979)...Too declamatory for my taste...Even if
the orchestral accompaniment of Dutoit (a conductor I have never, but
then NEVER liked!) is satisfactory...But there is no imagination (yet
Dutoit is quite skillful, in Ravel, usually)...
*ITZHAK PERLMAN* (EMI 1974)...Fast...StraightforwardAccompaniment uneven
and imprecise (yet it is a great specialist of French music : Jean
Martinon)...
*MICHAEL RABIN* (Testament 1957)...Tonic...Elegant...But very little
fantasy...
*ZINO FRANCESCATTI* (Sony 1965)...One of my favorite violinists,
familiar with this score...Fast, spontaneous, demonstrative...Lenny's
flamboyant accompaniment...But slight lack of nuances...
*FRANK PETER ZIMMERMANN* (Warner 1990)...Panache...Lyricism...Intense
and natural...(the conductor Gianluigi Gelmetti is not well known)...
*HENRYK SZERYNG* (Philips 1969)...God knows if this violinist has been
criticized by the critics ! (and even sometimes by his peers!)...But
here, what a lesson of style!...Impressive virtuosity...Alas, the
orchestra and its conductor (Remoortel, well forgotten) are of a
rheumatic heaviness...
*ISAAC STERN* (Sony 1957)...I heard him in 1967 (as an encore!) at the
Tivoli in Copenhagen, when I was completely drunk after a visit to the
Tuborg factories!)...Passionate and generous bow...In total osmosis with
a masterly orchestra (Ormandy/Philadelphia)...
*CHRISTIAN FERRAS* (Decca 1953)...Yes...I know...Still "cave"
artists...(George Sebastian is also a well forgotten conductor, great
Mahlerian before the eternal)...But what do you want... The freedom of
tone...The fantasy...The rhapsodic commitment...The ardent
sensitivity...We are on the highest peaks, there...I can't help it if we
have probably never done better, eh...
I have discarded dozens of
recordings...Grumiaux/Fournet/Rosenthal...Oistrakh/Kondrachine...Haendel/Ancerl...Amoyal/Jordan...Accardo/Abbado...Repin/Nagano...Capuçon/Harding...Dumay/Rosenthal
etc...Etc...
--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/
B. A. Nilsson
2021-05-04 02:22:03 UTC
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Here's a spectacular, unusual take on the piece by Gilles Apap and the Colors of Invention:


-- Byron
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