Discussion:
Rachmaninoff's 2nd PC redux
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Bozo
2018-12-30 13:58:06 UTC
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I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5

The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.

https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
HT
2018-12-30 17:41:48 UTC
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Post by Bozo
I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5
The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.
https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
Thanks! If you are a pianist and want t record a piano concerto, hope that Pappano is wiling to conduct the orchestra. With him, you cannot go wrong.

Frolova-Walker knows how to tell a story! It was a pleasure to listen to her.

Henk
Andy Evans
2018-12-31 10:30:34 UTC
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Not so sure Andsnes is the top of the tree here. I don't listen to the work, but I thought the Richter excerpts were interesting. Not a very wide choice of pianists in a work which most of them play. She's a good reviewer otherwise, and I've heard her be more interesting.
dk
2018-12-31 21:35:55 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
Not so sure Andsnes is the top of the tree here.
I don't listen to the work, but I thought the
Richter excerpts were interesting. Not a very
wide choice of pianists in a work which most
of them play. She's a good reviewer otherwise,
and I've heard her be more interesting.
She has omitted so many top performances
that her reviews are highly suspicious!

Rosa Tamarkina, Stanislav Neuhaus, HJ Lim!

She sounds overly obsessed with Rachmaninov's
intent and fidelity to the score, promoting a
literalist, historical view of the music.

dk
Bozo
2019-01-01 02:00:31 UTC
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Post by dk
She has omitted so many top performances
that her reviews are highly suspicious!
She explicitly states she has heard many others not mentioned in her review , and that given the huge number of recordings , she intentionally chose to focus on recent performances.
Post by dk
She sounds overly obsessed with Rachmaninov's
intent and fidelity to the score,...
???!!!! Why give care what the composer thought, especially a piano composer who was one of the greatest pianists ever, when one can just sit back and listen to Lim's definitive version.
dk
2019-01-01 02:19:56 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by dk
She has omitted so many top performances
that her reviews are highly suspicious!
She explicitly states she has heard many others
not mentioned in her review , and that given the
huge number of recordings , she intentionally
chose to focus on recent performances.
Cop-out! If that were true she should not have
mentioned or referred to Rachmaninov's recordings.
Post by Bozo
Post by dk
She sounds overly obsessed with Rachmaninov's
intent and fidelity to the score,...
???!!!! Why give care what the composer thought,
Because once written and published the score is
open to interpretation. What the composer had in
mind is completely irrelevant.
Post by Bozo
especially a piano composer who was one of the
greatest pianists ever,
Irrelevant. Does anyone believe Shakespeare acted
the best Hamlet ever on stage ?!?
Post by Bozo
when one can just sit back and listen to Lim's
definitive version.
Indeed -- or Richter, Stanislav Neuhaus or Rosa
Tamarkina.

dk
HT
2019-01-01 11:27:29 UTC
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Post by dk
Indeed -- or Richter, Stanislav Neuhaus or Rosa
Tamarkina.
Hmmm. Not my favorites. I liked what I heard of Moiseiwitsch. It's time to revisit him. I'm listening now to Volodos/Chailly on YT. Not the best sound but a great performance.

Henk
c***@gmail.com
2019-01-01 12:46:14 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by dk
Indeed -- or Richter, Stanislav Neuhaus or Rosa
Tamarkina.
Hmmm. Not my favorites. I liked what I heard of Moiseiwitsch. It's time to revisit him. I'm listening now to Volodos/Chailly on YT. Not the best sound but a great performance.
Henk
Henk, have you heard Ke(h)rer/Kondrashin?

Happy New Year!

AC
HT
2019-01-01 14:24:28 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Henk, have you heard Ke(h)rer/Kondrashin?
Alan, I only heard Kerer/Ivanov, from YT. It's a great performance.

Happy New Year! to you, and all other members of RMCR.

Henk
billinrio
2019-01-02 03:46:16 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by dk
Indeed -- or Richter, Stanislav Neuhaus or Rosa
Tamarkina.
Hmmm. Not my favorites. I liked what I heard of Moiseiwitsch. It's time to revisit him. I'm listening now to Volodos/Chailly on YT. Not the best sound but a great performance.
Henk
I have Moiselwitsch playing the Rachmaninoff 2 on a BBC Legends disk -BBC 4074 (BBC Symphony Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent, Royal Albert Hall, London, August 06,1956). Is this the recording to which you refer?
HT
2019-01-02 10:09:52 UTC
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Post by billinrio
I have Moiselwitsch playing the Rachmaninoff 2 on a BBC Legends disk -BBC 4074 (BBC Symphony Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent, Royal Albert Hall, London, August 06,1956). Is this the recording to which you refer?
If I remember correctly Frolova-Walker didn't mention which version she played. There are several, among those the Moiseiwitsch/Sargent version. I'll start with the Moiseiwitsch/Goehr from 1937.

Henk
O
2019-01-02 10:53:08 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by billinrio
I have Moiselwitsch playing the Rachmaninoff 2 on a BBC Legends disk -BBC
4074 (BBC Symphony Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent, Royal Albert Hall,
London, August 06,1956). Is this the recording to which you refer?
If I remember correctly Frolova-Walker didn't mention which version she
played. There are several, among those the Moiseiwitsch/Sargent version. I'll
start with the Moiseiwitsch/Goehr from 1937.
If I recall correctly, she did mention Sargent as one of the
accompanying conductors, not sure if it was Benno though.

-Owen
Bozo
2019-01-01 13:08:11 UTC
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In responding to DK's response to the BBC programme I posted , I was too gruff in tone . Apologies to DK and all.It is a New Year.
HT
2019-01-01 14:29:26 UTC
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Post by Bozo
In responding to DK's response to the BBC programme I posted , I was too gruff in tone . Apologies to DK and all.It is a New Year.
<g> Compared with Dan, you speak in a silken tone.

Henk
Herman
2019-01-01 18:43:38 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Bozo
In responding to DK's response to the BBC programme I posted , I was too gruff in tone . Apologies to DK and all.It is a New Year.
<g> Compared with Dan, you speak in a silken tone.
Henk
Smoothed by years of cheap cabernet.
HT
2019-01-01 20:29:50 UTC
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Post by Herman
Smoothed by years of cheap cabernet.
As far as I know the smoothness was always there.

Henk
Bozo
2019-01-01 20:49:46 UTC
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Post by HT
As far as I know the smoothness was always there.
Thanks ! Indeed, as evidenced by the fact I first convinced my wife to marry me, and thereafter convinced her to stay married to me, so far 40 1/2 years.
AB
2019-01-01 18:05:18 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Post by dk
She has omitted so many top performances
that her reviews are highly suspicious!
She explicitly states she has heard many others not mentioned in her review , and that given the huge number of recordings , she intentionally chose to focus on recent performances.
Post by dk
She sounds overly obsessed with Rachmaninov's
intent and fidelity to the score,...
???!!!! Why give care what the composer thought, especially a piano composer who was one of the greatest pianists ever, when one can just sit back and listen to Lim's definitive version.
IMO, Richter's version is just as 'definitive'.

AB
HT
2019-01-01 20:06:24 UTC
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Post by AB
IMO, Richter's version is just as 'definitive'.
Definitive? A work of art has more to offer than a single interpretation can bring to life. Richter's version is only one interpretation, be it by a great performer.

Henk
Frank Berger
2019-01-01 20:23:50 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by AB
IMO, Richter's version is just as 'definitive'.
Definitive? A work of art has more to offer than a single interpretation can bring to life. Richter's version is only one interpretation, be it by a great performer.
Henk
You seem to have failed to perceive the meaning of the quotation marks
around 'definitive.' Or I have.
HT
2019-01-01 21:00:59 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
You seem to have failed to perceive the meaning of the quotation marks
around 'definitive.' Or I have.
""Just as definitive" is a contradiction. The quotes around definitive prevent that: Richter's version is not really definitive. That does not rule out that a version might be definitive. I suggest that no version can.

Henk
Frank Berger
2019-01-01 21:26:51 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Frank Berger
You seem to have failed to perceive the meaning of the quotation marks
around 'definitive.' Or I have.
""Just as definitive" is a contradiction. The quotes around definitive prevent that: Richter's version is not really definitive. That does not rule out that a version might be definitive. I suggest that no version can.
Henk
I think that is what the quotes mean. They make (given the context of
the discussion) the statement sarcastic. If he meant literally to say
Richter's version was just as definitive, he wouldn't have used the
quotes. So he meant something else. What could it have been? That
there is no such thing as definitive.
dk
2019-01-01 22:22:45 UTC
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Post by HT
That does not rule out that a version might be definitive.
I suggest that no version can.
And you win the prize for publishing
the first contradiction of the year!

Unless our leader beat you to the twit!
I don't follow Twitter and I wouldn't
know! ;-)

Happy 1936!

dk
HT
2019-01-01 23:06:37 UTC
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Post by dk
And you win the prize for publishing
the first contradiction of the year!
I see what you mean. But you are wrong. If you need help, Im more than willing to point the way.
Post by dk
Happy 1936!
You mean november 1937?

Henk
gggg gggg
2021-08-16 05:12:00 UTC
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Post by Bozo
I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5
The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.
https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
(Recent Y. upload):

Rachmaninov Piano Concerto no 2 - George Harliono LIVE at the Royal College of Music London
Dan Koren
2021-11-21 02:34:11 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
Post by Bozo
I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5
The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.
https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
Rachmaninov Piano Concerto no 2 - George Harliono LIVE at the Royal College of Music London
Link ?!?

dk

gggg gggg
2021-11-20 07:00:05 UTC
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Post by Bozo
I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5
The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.
https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
(Y. upload):

WHY IS Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 so BEAUTIFUL? (Playing and talking)
Dan Koren
2021-11-21 02:33:56 UTC
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Post by gggg gggg
Post by Bozo
I found this analysis of the work, and comparison of several recordings, very interesting.Starts about 30 minutes into the broadcast . Many thanks to my friend who suggested I listen to the broadcast.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001sg5
The critic : Marina Frolova-Walker of Cambridge Univ.
https://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/marina-frolova-walker
WHY IS Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 so BEAUTIFUL? (Playing and talking)
Link ?!?

dk
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