Discussion:
Best Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2?
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Doug Beardslee
2020-11-01 20:43:18 UTC
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I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting), but Gilels is in a category all his own.
John Fitzgerald Kennedy
2020-11-01 23:14:50 UTC
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I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting), but Gilels is in a category all his own.
For me the best recording for Brahms Opus 83 is August 29th, 1939 recording in Luzern by Horowitz and Toscanini.

YM
dk
2020-11-05 09:14:09 UTC
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Post by John Fitzgerald Kennedy
For me the best recording for Brahms Opus 83 is
August 29th, 1939 recording in Luzern by Horowitz
and Toscanini.
Disgusting! Neither person should
have ever been allowed to touch
Brahms!

dk
Henk vT
2020-11-05 10:03:53 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by John Fitzgerald Kennedy
For me the best recording for Brahms Opus 83 is
August 29th, 1939 recording in Luzern by Horowitz
and Toscanini.
Disgusting! Neither person should
have ever been allowed to touch
Brahms!
I seldom agree with JFK but in this case, he has a point. It's either Horowitz/Toscanini or Backhaus/Böhm.

To my surprise, there is no recording of the concerto by a youngster. At least not by someone who is on my to-buy list. No Vondracek, for example.

Henk
dk
2020-11-05 20:33:29 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Post by John Fitzgerald Kennedy
For me the best recording for Brahms Opus 83 is
August 29th, 1939 recording in Luzern by Horowitz
and Toscanini.
Disgusting! Neither person should
have ever been allowed to touch
Brahms!
I seldom agree with JFK but in this case,
he has a point. It's either Horowitz/
Toscanini or Backhaus/Böhm.
To my surprise, there is no recording of
the concerto by a youngster. At least not
by someone who is on my to-buy list. No
Vondracek, for example.
Henk, you really need new ears! You also
need to get out of the cave where you live.
God save us from Vondracek and like pianists.

dk

PS. I noticed your tendency to unconditionally
like QEPC prize winners. The QEPC was never a
first class competition. It is a competition
for 2nd class competent pianists like Gilels
or Ashkenazy. Very conservative.
Henk vT
2020-11-06 10:12:27 UTC
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Post by dk
Henk, you really need new ears!
<g> I'm too old now (as I was when you first mentioned it - 20 years or so ago).
Post by dk
You also need to get out of the cave where you live. God save us from Vondracek and like pianists.
He did, with the exception of Vondracek himself. There aren't many like him. He's quite unique - one of the few great Brahms performers of the younger generation.
Post by dk
PS. I noticed your tendency to unconditionally
like QEPC prize winners. The QEPC was never a
first class competition. It is a competition
for 2nd class competent pianists like Gilels
or Ashkenazy. Very conservative.
The QR competition isn't anymore what it was. Afanssiev (1972) was the last of the great (even if he too was only 2nd class). Eckardstein and Vondracek are the only youngsters I follow. The first because of his Scriabin and Prokofieff, Vondracek because of his Brahms (only available on YT).

Henk
dk
2020-11-06 18:15:27 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Henk, you really need new ears!
<g> I'm too old now (as I was when you first
mentioned it - 20 years or so ago).
Except for sporting events, age is one's mind.
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
You also need to get out of the cave where
you live. God save us from Vondracek and
like pianists.
He did, with the exception of Vondracek himself.
Is he giving up the piano and switching to viola?
Post by Henk vT
There aren't many like him. He's quite unique -
one of the few great Brahms performers of the
younger generation.
I hope you are not serious about this.
Are you referring to the sonata op. 5?



It is truly ridiculous!
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
PS. I noticed your tendency to unconditionally
like QEPC prize winners. The QEPC was never a
first class competition. It is a competition
for 2nd class competent pianists like Gilels
or Ashkenazy. Very conservative.
The QR competition isn't anymore what it was.
Afanassiev (1972) was the last of the great
(even if he too was only 2nd class).
Eckardstein and Vondracek are the only youngsters
I follow. The first because of his Scriabin and
Prokofieff, Vondracek because of his Brahms (only
available on YT).
They are both clowns. There are plenty of much
better Brahms and Scriabin performers.

dk
dk
2020-11-06 18:43:40 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
Henk, you really need new ears!
<g> I'm too old now (as I was when you first
mentioned it - 20 years or so ago).
Except for sporting events, age is one's mind.
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
You also need to get out of the cave where
you live. God save us from Vondracek and
like pianists.
He did, with the exception of Vondracek himself.
Is he giving up the piano and switching to viola?
Post by Henk vT
There aren't many like him. He's quite unique -
one of the few great Brahms performers of the
younger generation.
I hope you are not serious about this.
Are you referring to the sonata op. 5?
http://youtu.be/TDyfQ7d-_GY
It is truly ridiculous!
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
PS. I noticed your tendency to unconditionally
like QEPC prize winners. The QEPC was never a
first class competition. It is a competition
for 2nd class competent pianists like Gilels
or Ashkenazy. Very conservative.
The QR competition isn't anymore what it was.
Afanassiev (1972) was the last of the great
(even if he too was only 2nd class).
Eckardstein and Vondracek are the only youngsters
I follow. The first because of his Scriabin and
Prokofieff, Vondracek because of his Brahms (only
available on YT).
They are both clowns. There are plenty of much
better Brahms and Scriabin performers.
I just checked Eckardstein's Scriabin 4th Sonata
on YT:


This is a perfect example of how NOT TO PLAY
Scriabin. One can hear every beat and every
bar! No texture, no colors, the metronome
rules!

Here are a few comments left by others:

marmasiotis
8 years ago
It is very peculiar.. it isn't that he is
having any problems of technical issues,
but it is as if something in his ...soul..
or personality? There is a layer of
sensibility he doesn´t achieve.. as if
he experiences the music through ..his
outside but not from his inside. I can't
explain it better. (poor english :-p )

NOSEhow2LIV
10 years ago
Very insensitive, heavy, loud first
movement and brutal pecked-at prestissimo
volando, not flying at all. He's got mixed
up and thinks he's playing Prokofiev! Final
climax is the most un-extatic imaginable.
Try Fiorentino or Friere for the antidote!

QED.

dk
Henk vT
2020-11-06 20:23:36 UTC
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Post by dk
I just checked Eckardstein's Scriabin 4th Sonata
on YT: http://youtu.be/PdUMU5UzSAg
This is a perfect example of how NOT TO PLAY
Scriabin. One can hear every beat and every
bar! No texture, no colors, the metronome
rules!
marmasiotis
8 years ago
It is very peculiar.. it isn't that he is
having any problems of technical issues,
but it is as if something in his ...soul..
or personality? There is a layer of
sensibility he doesn´t achieve.. as if
he experiences the music through ..his
outside but not from his inside. I can't
explain it better. (poor english :-p )
NOSEhow2LIV
10 years ago
Very insensitive, heavy, loud first
movement and brutal pecked-at prestissimo
volando, not flying at all. He's got mixed
up and thinks he's playing Prokofiev! Final
climax is the most un-extatic imaginable.
Try Fiorentino or Friere for the antidote!
QED.
Hmmm. The likes are 150 and the dislikes are 18. That proves as little as your appeal to 'authorities'. It is naive to think that something must and can be demonstrated in musical matters, and it is even more naive to think that something has been demonstrated.

In this case, most, if not all, of the notes Scriabin wrote seem to be there. The question that matters is not whether they are as Scriabin intended them to be, or as Moscow, Julliard, Curtis, or any other school says they are meant to be. What matters is: does it move 'me'?

BTW, this performance doesn't (at least not in a positive sense).

Henk
dk
2020-11-08 04:50:23 UTC
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Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
I just checked Eckardstein's Scriabin 4th Sonata
on YT: http://youtu.be/PdUMU5UzSAg
This is a perfect example of how NOT TO PLAY
Scriabin. One can hear every beat and every
bar! No texture, no colors, the metronome
rules!
marmasiotis
8 years ago
It is very peculiar.. it isn't that he is
having any problems of technical issues,
but it is as if something in his ...soul..
or personality? There is a layer of
sensibility he doesn´t achieve.. as if
he experiences the music through ..his
outside but not from his inside. I can't
explain it better. (poor english :-p )
NOSEhow2LIV
10 years ago
Very insensitive, heavy, loud first
movement and brutal pecked-at prestissimo
volando, not flying at all. He's got mixed
up and thinks he's playing Prokofiev! Final
climax is the most un-extatic imaginable.
Try Fiorentino or Friere for the antidote!
QED.
Hmmm. The likes are 150 and the dislikes are 18.
That proves as little as your appeal to 'authorities'.
I did not appeal to "authorities". Just pointed out
other listeners heard the same shit I heard in his
playing.
Post by Henk vT
It is naive to think that something must and can be
demonstrated in musical matters,
Not even competence?
Post by Henk vT
and it is even more naive to think that something
has been demonstrated.
Your deafness and complete lack of musical taste has
been amply demonstrated!
Post by Henk vT
In this case, most, if not all, of the notes Scriabin
wrote seem to be there. The question that matters is
not whether they are as Scriabin intended them to be,
or as Moscow, Julliard, Curtis, or any other school
says they are meant to be.
I only listen to my own ears!
Post by Henk vT
What matters is: does it move 'me'?
Of course.
Post by Henk vT
BTW, this performance doesn't (at least not in a
positive sense).
Then why did you promote it?

dk
Henk vT
2020-11-08 12:51:55 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
Post by dk
I just checked Eckardstein's Scriabin 4th Sonata
on YT: http://youtu.be/PdUMU5UzSAg
This is a perfect example of how NOT TO PLAY
Scriabin. One can hear every beat and every
bar! No texture, no colors, the metronome
rules!
marmasiotis
8 years ago
It is very peculiar.. it isn't that he is
having any problems of technical issues,
but it is as if something in his ...soul..
or personality? There is a layer of
sensibility he doesn´t achieve.. as if
he experiences the music through ..his
outside but not from his inside. I can't
explain it better. (poor english :-p )
NOSEhow2LIV
10 years ago
Very insensitive, heavy, loud first
movement and brutal pecked-at prestissimo
volando, not flying at all. He's got mixed
up and thinks he's playing Prokofiev! Final
climax is the most un-extatic imaginable.
Try Fiorentino or Friere for the antidote!
QED.
Hmmm. The likes are 150 and the dislikes are 18.
That proves as little as your appeal to 'authorities'.
I did not appeal to "authorities". Just pointed out
other listeners heard the same shit I heard in his
playing.
Since when do you need others to point that out?
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
It is naive to think that something must and can be
demonstrated in musical matters,
Not even competence?
Define competence. Most if not all of the notes were there.
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
and it is even more naive to think that something
has been demonstrated.
Your deafness and complete lack of musical taste has
been amply demonstrated!
That's a non sequitur - since you like Latin (although you don't seem to understand it: using QED when you just want to point something out). <g>
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
In this case, most, if not all, of the notes Scriabin
wrote seem to be there. The question that matters is
not whether they are as Scriabin intended them to be,
or as Moscow, Julliard, Curtis, or any other school
says they are meant to be.
I only listen to my own ears!
After your 'just point out', I'm starting to doubt that.
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
What matters is: does it move 'me'?
Of course.
Really?
Post by dk
Post by Henk vT
BTW, this performance doesn't (at least not in a
positive sense).
Then why did you promote it?
I didn't promote it. You mentioned it, concluding from seeing one black swan that there are no white swans.

Henk
Herman
2020-11-08 13:18:59 UTC
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Post by dk
I only listen to my own ears!
dk
Of course you do.

The strange thing however is that you have a gigantic history of trying to bludgeon other people into listening with your own ears.

It's impossible and unnecessary.
dk
2020-11-08 19:18:27 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by dk
I only listen to my own ears!
Of course you do.
The strange thing however is that you have a
gigantic history of trying to bludgeon other
people into listening with your own ears.
I never bludgeon anyone into anything.

I only provide considered professional
advice -- and reminders we live in the
21st century rather than in the 19th
century.

dk
Herman
2020-11-08 19:48:37 UTC
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Post by dk
I only provide considered professional
advice -- and reminders we live in the
21st century rather than in the 19th
century.
dk
Professional how? You're not a concert pianist, otherwise you wouldn't write this silly absolutist stuff, typical of somebody who is a listener (or was).
Juan I. Cahis
2020-11-02 12:07:26 UTC
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Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording of
the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained my
far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good ones
(most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting), but
Gilels is in a category all his own.
Even better, for me, is the old Arrau/Giulini recording for EMI, much
better than Arrau/Haitink on Phillips
--
Enviado desde mi iPad usando NewsTap, Juan I. Cahis, Santiago de Chile.
g***@gmail.com
2020-11-07 17:47:50 UTC
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Post by Juan I. Cahis
Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording of
the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained my
far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good ones
(most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting), but
Gilels is in a category all his own.
Even better, for me, is the old Arrau/Giulini recording for EMI, much
better than Arrau/Haitink on Phillips
--
Enviado desde mi iPad usando NewsTap, Juan I. Cahis, Santiago de Chile.
(Recent Youtube upload):

Brahms - Piano Concertos Nos.1,2 / NEW MASTERING (ref.record.: Claudio Arrau, Carlo Maria Giulini)
dk
2020-11-02 13:05:20 UTC
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Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording
of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained
my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good
ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting),
but Gilels is in a category all his own.
Re-opening a 25+ year old tread to promote dead pianists?
Are you trying to compete with the quote bot? You can't win.

dk
M&S Frost
2020-11-02 19:58:27 UTC
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Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording
of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained
my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good
ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting),
but Gilels is in a category all his own.
Re-opening a 25+ year old tread to promote dead pianists?
Are you trying to compete with the quote bot? You can't win.
dk
Am I the only one who thinks that the opening movement sounds like it should come second, and the second movement sounds like it should be the opening movement?
:-)

MIFrost
dk
2020-11-03 01:15:35 UTC
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Post by M&S Frost
Post by dk
Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording
of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained
my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good
ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting),
but Gilels is in a category all his own.
Re-opening a 25+ year old tread to promote dead pianists?
Are you trying to compete with the quote bot? You can't win.
Am I the only one who thinks that the opening movement sounds
like it should come second, and the second movement sounds
like it should be the opening movement?
:-)
The second movement could make a good first movement for a
piano concerto, however the first movement is way too big
to make a good second movement.

I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen. I am no longer sure if I still like it enough
for repeated listening from nose to tail.

The division between the piano and the orchestra in the
first movement sounds to me increasingly odd. I wonder
if swapping the piano and the orchestra parts might
make it a better work.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-03 08:08:34 UTC
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Post by dk
I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen.
You forgot *Claudio Arrau*...
dk
2020-11-03 18:38:16 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen.
You forgot *Claudio Arrau*...
He is 6 feet under. The truth is
he always sounded as if playing
from 6 feet under. The greatest
moron to ever disgrace the stage.

dk
dk
2020-11-03 18:43:25 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen.
You forgot *Claudio Arrau*...
He is 6 feet under. The truth is
he always sounded as if playing
from 6 feet under. The greatest
moron to ever disgrace the stage.
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
and an imbecile at worst:



Anyone playing Feux Follets like
this on stage must be immediately
admitted and evaluated for dementia.

dk
Alan Cooper
2020-11-03 18:55:42 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen.
You forgot *Claudio Arrau*...
He is 6 feet under. The truth is
he always sounded as if playing
from 6 feet under. The greatest
moron to ever disgrace the stage.
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
http://youtu.be/eLpMxlXmrug
Anyone playing Feux Follets like
this on stage must be immediately
admitted and evaluated for dementia.
dk
I got a chuckle from the youtube commentator who described the performance, which sounds awful to me, as afflicted by "Arrauthritis." But I do enjoy Arrau in Brahms PC#2 when the right mood strikes--Haitink in preference to Giulini.

AC
dk
2020-11-03 19:19:12 UTC
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Post by Alan Cooper
Post by dk
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
I used to like this concerto very much in my younger years,
having been imprinted on live performances by Richter,
Gilels, Andre Watts, Rubinstein, Igor Zhukov and Julius
Katchen.
You forgot *Claudio Arrau*...
He is 6 feet under. The truth is
he always sounded as if playing
from 6 feet under. The greatest
moron to ever disgrace the stage.
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
http://youtu.be/eLpMxlXmrug
Anyone playing Feux Follets like
this on stage must be immediately
admitted and evaluated for dementia.
I got a chuckle from the youtube commentator
? who described the performance, which sounds
Post by Alan Cooper
awful to me, as afflicted by "Arrauthritis."
Anyone said that? How insightful!
Post by Alan Cooper
But I do enjoy Arrau in Brahms PC#2 when the
right mood strikes--Haitink in preference to
Giulini.
Whatever makes you happy makes you
happy. To my ears Arrau sounds too
belabored. If you like his take on
Brahms, Hans Richter Haaser does a
better job.



dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-03 23:07:45 UTC
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Post by dk
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
I think I've already told you: your total absence of the sense of
ridicule honors you...Yes it does...
But...come on...I still like you...

By the way...I would be curious to know who are for you the...Let's say
the 5 best pianists of your keyboard panteon...

One of the most beautiful concerts that I attended was, in the 70's,
Arrau conducted by Markevitch in Brahms' second concerto...I believe
that this concert was recorded (I don't find the disc in my
collection...I can hear myself applauding there !)...

As for calling Arrau a "moron"...I leave you entirely responsible for
your bullshit...
JohnGavin
2020-11-03 23:35:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
incompetent pianist at best,
I think I've already told you: your total absence of the sense of
ridicule honors you...Yes it does...
But...come on...I still like you...
By the way...I would be curious to know who are for you the...Let's say
the 5 best pianists of your keyboard panteon...
One of the most beautiful concerts that I attended was, in the 70's,
Arrau conducted by Markevitch in Brahms' second concerto...I believe
that this concert was recorded (I don't find the disc in my
collection...I can hear myself applauding there !)...
As for calling Arrau a "moron"...I leave you entirely responsible for
your bullshit...
Anyone playing Feux Follets like
this on stage must be immediately
admitted and evaluated for dementia.

dk

These fireflies sound as if they are dying. This piece is very difficult, true, but the sparkle which makes the piece work is completely missing.

I know that Arrau has long had passionate fans, yet when I have heard him, live and on recordings, it has always left me feeling numb. I remember hearing some excerpts from Iberia, from an old mono recording. It was like Eating paella without any spices. It seems like his fans like this smooth flatness - but I admit this may be a blind spot in my musical taste. I don’t know which is more controversial- politics or opinions on musical interpretation.
Frank Berger
2020-11-03 23:58:54 UTC
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Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
I think I've already told you: your total absence of the
sense of ridicule honors you...Yes it does...
But...come on...I still like you...
By the way...I would be curious to know who are for you
the...Let's say the 5 best pianists of your keyboard panteon...
One of the most beautiful concerts that I attended was, in
the 70's, Arrau conducted by Markevitch in Brahms' second
concerto...I believe that this concert was recorded (I don't
find the disc in my collection...I can hear myself
applauding there !)...
As for calling Arrau a "moron"...I leave you entirely
responsible for your bullshit...
Brahms 2, Markevitch, Arrau, 1976 on Archipel

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=10896&album_group=14
MELMOTH
2020-11-04 00:58:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Brahms 2, Markevitch, Arrau, 1976 on Archipel
Thanks !...
dk
2020-11-04 05:45:30 UTC
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Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by Frank Berger
Brahms 2, Markevitch, Arrau, 1976 on Archipel
Thanks !...
Difficult to imagine how
Markevitch could stoop
so low.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-04 00:56:09 UTC
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(I don't find the disc in my collection...I can hear myself applauding there
!)...
[3] Igor Markevitch / O. National de France
ø Concert 1961 - [Inédit - Bande Radio]
Durée : 47'22
dk
2020-11-04 06:10:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
I think I've already told you: your total
absence of the sense of ridicule honors
you...Yes it does... But...come on...I
still like you...
Sorry to disappoint, I am not French.
Post by MELMOTH
By the way...I would be curious to know
who are for you the...Let's say the 5
best pianists of your keyboard panteon...
1) You misspelled pantheon -- how did
you manage to pass le baccalauréat?

2) Only 5? Do you think I am still in
kindergarten?

3) Unlike so many in this ng, I worship
no one. I like or dislike individual
performances on merits alone. Saying
I like or dislike a pianist is only
shorthand for statistical evaluation.

4) You can write me privately if you are
would like to ask for an autographed
copy of my bio.
Post by MELMOTH
One of the most beautiful concerts that I
attended was, in the 70's, Arrau conducted
by Markevitch in Brahms' second concerto...
You head Arrau sleeping through the concert ?!?
Post by MELMOTH
I believe that this concert was recorded
Wasted tape.
Post by MELMOTH
(I don't find the disc in my collection...
I can hear myself applauding there !)...
Tape print-through?
Post by MELMOTH
As for calling Arrau a "moron"...I leave
you entirely responsible for your bullshit...
Arrau was bullshit -- or more accurately
guano. Worst pianist of any note ever,
more so than even Backhaus, who could
at least move his fingers.

dk
MELMOTH
2020-11-04 08:33:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
Post by dk
This is the evidence, if evidence
were needed, that Arrau was an
incompetent pianist at best,
I think I've already told you: your total
absence of the sense of ridicule honors
you...Yes it does... But...come on...I
still like you...
Sorry to disappoint, I am not French.
That's YOUR problem...
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
By the way...I would be curious to know
who are for you the...Let's say the 5
best pianists of your keyboard panteon...
1) You misspelled pantheon -- how did
you manage to pass le baccalauréat?
As trump...Thanks to the Supreme Court...
Post by dk
2) Only 5? Do you think I am still in
kindergarten?
Oh YES...
Post by dk
3) Unlike so many in this ng, I worship
no one. I like or dislike individual
performances on merits alone. Saying
I like or dislike a pianist is only
shorthand for statistical evaluation.
4) You can write me privately if you are
would like to ask for an autographed
copy of my bio.
OK...I'm waiting for you to give me your e-mail address...
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
One of the most beautiful concerts that I
attended was, in the 70's, Arrau conducted
by Markevitch in Brahms' second concerto...
You head Arrau sleeping through the concert ?!?
Do you know how funny you are ?...
Post by dk
Post by MELMOTH
As for calling Arrau a "moron"...I leave
you entirely responsible for your bullshit...
Arrau was bullshit -- or more accurately
guano. Worst pianist of any note ever,
more so than even Backhaus, who could
at least move his fingers.
Have you thought about consulting ?...
Post by dk
dk
dk
2020-11-04 18:15:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
OK...I'm waiting for you to give me
Thanks!

One can always "reply privately
to the author" through the news
client one is using. Otherwise,
my e-mail address is easy to
guess.

dk
dk
2020-11-04 18:46:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MELMOTH
OK...I'm waiting for you to give
Thanks!

One can always "reply privately
to the author" through the news
client one is using. Otherwise,
my e-mail address is easy to
find.

dk
Herman
2020-11-03 09:17:15 UTC
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Post by M&S Frost
Post by dk
Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording
of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained
my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good
ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting),
but Gilels is in a category all his own.
Re-opening a 25+ year old tread to promote dead pianists?
Are you trying to compete with the quote bot? You can't win.
dk
Am I the only one who thinks that the opening movement sounds like it should come second, and the second movement sounds like it should be the opening movement?
:-)
MIFrost
One of the most famous and immediately thrilling opening sections in the concert rep and, yes, here's someone who thinks he's got a better idea!
dk
2020-11-03 18:39:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by M&S Frost
Post by dk
Post by Doug Beardslee
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
From the moment I discovered the Emil Gilels/Eugen Yochum recording
of the Brahms Piano Cto No. 2 in the early 1980s, it has remained
my far-and-away desert island disc choice. I have heard some good
ones (most recently, Nelson Freire's with Riccardo Chailly conducting),
but Gilels is in a category all his own.
Re-opening a 25+ year old tread to promote dead pianists?
Are you trying to compete with the quote bot? You can't win.
Am I the only one who thinks that the opening movement sounds like it should come second, and the second movement sounds like it should be the opening movement?
:-)
One of the most famous and immediately thrilling opening sections in the concert rep and, yes, here's someone who thinks he's got a better idea!
There is no harm in playing hypothetical games.
Not to mention fiddlers are not allowed votes
on piano music! ;-)

dk
Andrew Clarke
2020-11-09 08:12:10 UTC
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Permalink
I have recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 by Brendel
(Abbado/Berlin PO) and Ashkenazy (Haitink/Vienna PO) and I'm not
very enthusiastic about either one of them. Penguin, Good CD
Guide, and Ted Libbey's NPR Guide are unanimous in recommending
Emil Gilel's performance with Jochum/Berlin PO on DG. Do
R.M.C.R.ers agree?
Leo Scanlon
This overblown piece, full of sentimentality on the one hand and puerile jollity on the other, is unworthy of pianists and orchestras alike. It might have done very well in an arrangement for theatre organ. The slow movement would have made a suitable prelude for "Two Hearts in Three-Quarter Time" in one of the more petit-bourgeois suburbs of twentieth century Vienna. Plenty of tremolo, naturlich.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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