Discussion:
Liszt List
(too old to reply)
j***@aol.com
2005-11-02 20:15:41 UTC
Permalink
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.

Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.

--Jeff
John Thomas
2005-11-02 20:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt.
Don't worry; it's all surface anyway.
--
Regards,
John Thomas
j***@aol.com
2005-11-02 21:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Thomas
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt.
Don't worry; it's all surface anyway.
But no more surface than my obvious desire to impress my friends with
an rmcr-acclaimed Liszt collection!

--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
2005-11-02 20:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
His transcriptions of Schubert Lieder are very appealing. Lazer Berman
seems to have had a select group of these which he recorded (swapping some
in, some out) again and again and again and again and again, but very well.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
j***@aol.com
2005-11-02 21:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
His transcriptions of Schubert Lieder are very appealing. Lazer Berman
seems to have had a select group of these which he recorded (swapping some
in, some out) again and again and again and again and again, but very well.
Ah, yes. I had a few of those with Berman on an lp at one time.
Recently I bought a two-disc Schubert and Liszt live recital with
Berman on Discover--it had a few of the songs and they were
spectacularly good. That, actually, is what motivated me to reconsider
my lack of Liszt.

I also have Idil Biret (she's not bad with the songs, but not Berman)
and picked up some with Valerie Tryon. I have no idea how many Schubert
transcriptions there are, overall, or which are the best. It seems like
every collection has the same five or six.

--Jeff
Alan Cooper
2005-11-02 20:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
There's an inexpensive 5-CD set on French EMI of Cziffra playing
Liszt. It includes the Hungarian Rhapsodies, the Transcendental
Etudes, the Sonata (there is only one), and other miscellaneous works.
Cziffra's Liszt is always a treat, imo. Supplement that with
Richter's famous Philips recording of the two Piano Concerti, and
perhaps a set of Annees de pelerinage (e.g., Jerome Rose on Vox or
Lazar Berman on DG for the complete set, or for a single disc,
Fiorentino's recording of the Swiss year + Venezia e Napoli on
Appian).

AC
j***@aol.com
2005-11-02 21:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
There's an inexpensive 5-CD set on French EMI of Cziffra playing
Liszt. It includes the Hungarian Rhapsodies, the Transcendental
Etudes, the Sonata (there is only one), and other miscellaneous works.
Cziffra's Liszt is always a treat, imo. Supplement that with
Richter's famous Philips recording of the two Piano Concerti, and
perhaps a set of Annees de pelerinage (e.g., Jerome Rose on Vox or
Lazar Berman on DG for the complete set, or for a single disc,
Fiorentino's recording of the Swiss year + Venezia e Napoli on
Appian).
AC
I was under the impression that there's a Dante Sonata, not just the
famous one in B minor. (Thanks for reminding me about the concerti--I
included that under "orchestral" in my mind. I'm not wild about them,
but I am basically content with Richter/Kondrashin and
Arrau/Rosbaud/Ormandy).

Which of the "miscellanous" to you particularly like? I have some of
Cziffra's Liszt in his big EMI box set, but haven't explored that with
as much attention as his Schumann, Beethoven, Rameau, etc. etc. Other
than a sampling of Cziffra in the Hungarian Rhapsodies, of which, I
admit, I like a few, though I probably learned them as orchestral
pieces first and so hear them that way in my head.

I've been eyeing Rose's collections on Vox for about two decades, after
having been impressed with some Paganini variations that he played. Is
he a particularly good Lisztian in the "Annees"? I have Berman on LP
but to be honest, I probably haven't heard it more than once, and that
many years ago. I'd like to get some on CD, but I'm not sure Berman is
for me in these works. The Berman I have heard and loved has been in
live performance--and maybe some of his Prokofiev on DG.

--Jeff
Alan Cooper
2005-11-02 22:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I was under the impression that there's a Dante Sonata, not just the
famous one in B minor.
?? Are you thinking of the piece from the Italy year entitled "Apres
un lecture de Dante," or perhaps one of the three Petrarch *Sonnets*
from the same collection? Not sontatas. There is, I believe another
fragment of a juvenile Sonata in existence; presumably it's somewhere
in Howard's complete edition.
Post by j***@aol.com
(Thanks for reminding me about the concerti--I
included that under "orchestral" in my mind. I'm not wild about them,
but I am basically content with Richter/Kondrashin and
Arrau/Rosbaud/Ormandy).
Well, I'm getting the impression that you have a lot of stuff already
;-)
Post by j***@aol.com
Which of the "miscellanous" to you particularly like?
The usual stuff: Valse oubliee, Liebestraum, a Ballade, a
Polonaise--all nice stuff, well performed. I can live without the
Rapsodie espagnole, but lots of virtuosi seem to enjoy playing it.
Post by j***@aol.com
I have some of
Cziffra's Liszt in his big EMI box set, but haven't explored that with
as much attention as his Schumann, Beethoven, Rameau, etc. etc. Other
than a sampling of Cziffra in the Hungarian Rhapsodies, of which, I
admit, I like a few, though I probably learned them as orchestral
pieces first and so hear them that way in my head.
I prefer the piano versions, and they don't come any better than
Cziffra's.
Post by j***@aol.com
I've been eyeing Rose's collections on Vox for about two decades, after
having been impressed with some Paganini variations that he played. Is
he a particularly good Lisztian in the "Annees"?
There are better perfornances of individual works, imo, but I think
the Rose set is very fine and an excellent bargain.

You mentioned in another posting that you have Valerie Tryon's
recording of Schubert transcriptions. If that's the one on Naxos, I
think it's excellent.

One more recommendation while I'm thinking of it, and that would be
the collection of operatic transcriptions performed by Grigory
Ginsburg in the Russian Piano School series on Melodiya. It has
recently been available from Russiandvd.com. You might also consider
Earl Wild's Vanguard recording, "The Demonic Liszt." (Both Ginsburg
and Wild play the Waltzes from Gounod's Faust, which is a riot.)

AC
Steve Emerson
2005-11-03 01:53:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by j***@aol.com
I was under the impression that there's a Dante Sonata, not just the
famous one in B minor.
?? Are you thinking of the piece from the Italy year entitled "Apres
un lecture de Dante,"
I think he is. The one with subtitle "Fantasia quasi Sonata."

People do sometimes call this "the Dante sonata." This is one of the
better things in Berman's generally disappointing Annees on DG. David
Bar Illan's recording is one that I like.

SE.
Marc Perman
2005-11-03 03:32:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by j***@aol.com
I was under the impression that there's a Dante Sonata, not just the
famous one in B minor.
?? Are you thinking of the piece from the Italy year entitled "Apres
un lecture de Dante,"
I think he is. The one with subtitle "Fantasia quasi Sonata."
People do sometimes call this "the Dante sonata." This is one of the
better things in Berman's generally disappointing Annees on DG. David
Bar Illan's recording is one that I like.
Or was he referring to Liszt's Dante Symphony?

Marc Perman
j***@aol.com
2005-11-05 04:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by Alan Cooper
Post by j***@aol.com
I was under the impression that there's a Dante Sonata, not just the
famous one in B minor.
?? Are you thinking of the piece from the Italy year entitled "Apres
un lecture de Dante,"
I think he is. The one with subtitle "Fantasia quasi Sonata."
He was. I have the Barenboim on CD, coupled with the Dante Symphony. It
was called "Dante Sonata" on the front of the booklet.
Post by Steve Emerson
People do sometimes call this "the Dante sonata." This is one of the
better things in Berman's generally disappointing Annees on DG. David
Bar Illan's recording is one that I like.
Berman's set was one of my early Liszt purchases on lp. Didn't like it
much and listened only once, I think. I'll look for Bar Illan.

--Jeff

Andy Evans
2005-11-03 17:27:41 UTC
Permalink
I prefer the piano versions, and they don't come any better than
Cziffra's. >>

Except for Arrau, who to my ears is a master of this music.
Michael Painter
2005-11-02 21:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
--Jeff
I like his transcriptions of the Beethoven Symphonies, Berlioz's
Fantastique, and the William Tell Overture. Don't have an Schubert
lieder yet.

The recordings of the Beethoven Symphonies that I have are by Cyprien
Katsaris (Denon and MHS).

The Fantastique in on Naxos, with Idil Biret.

And the Rossini is on a disk by Frederic Chiu: Sins of Old Age (harmonia
mundi france).

cheers,
Mike
Raymond Hall
2005-11-02 22:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
I've noted lately that I have barely scratched the surface with the
music of Franz Liszt. I think I have all of his orchestral works and a
fair amount of his choral (and opera) output, plus a fair sampling of
lieder, but when I look at Leslie Howard's complete piano series, my
eyes tend to glaze over with nonrecognition.
If you haven't already, then Joo's tone poems are excellent, and the
oratorio Christus by Rilling is well worth looking at.
Post by j***@aol.com
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
I fail to see why out and out piano transcriptions of symphonies, operas
would be of any interest to anyone, even painophiles, but ymmv, but Arnaldo
Cohen's selection on Naxos Vol I, is a superb demonstration of great piano
playing, and the 3 main (longest pieces) include, Totentanz, Danse Macabre
and Reminiscences des Huguenots (the last two being transcriptions of pieces
by Saint Saens and Meyerbeer respectively).

Ray H
Taree
Charles Milton Ling
2005-11-03 12:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Raymond Hall wrote:

<snipped>
Post by Raymond Hall
I fail to see why out and out piano transcriptions of symphonies, operas
would be of any interest to anyone, even painophiles, ...
<snipped>

Well, I suppose a painophile is someone who likes pain...

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Best regards,
Charley
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Matt
2005-11-02 22:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@aol.com
Pianophiles: Aside from the Transcendental Etudes and the Sonatas, what
would you consider Liszt's most attractive and interesting works for
piano? A List of, say, 5 to 10 recommended CDs covering your favored
favorites would be most appreciated.
The Hungarian Rhapsodies, some of the opera paraphrases, the concertos, the
Schubert-Liszt compositions, and, depending on your interest in the piano,
several miscellaneous études and smaller compositions (La Campanella, Un
sospiro, Waldesräuchen, Gnomenreigen, the Mephisto Valse, etc.).

If I were going to shortlist I would get:

the EMI Cziffra box (or just the Rhapsodies at minimum)
the EMI two-fer, "Etudes de virtuosité," with Ovchinikov and Jean-Marie
Darré
Earl Wild, "The Demonic Liszt"
the concertos with Richter
Van Cliburn "My Favorite Liszt"
the Supraphon Jan Panenka fortepiano CD (very interesting)

These would certainly satisfy a casual interest in Liszt.

The Moiseiwitsch and (live) Bolet recordings of theWagner-Liszt Tannhäuser
Overture are also, in my opinion, essential (although not all-Liszt CDs).

Matt
Vaneyes
2005-11-02 23:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Piano Concertos 1 & 2, etc. - Cziffra/OdP/Cziffra Jr. (EMI Encore)
Faust Symphony - BSO/Bernstein (DG Originals)
Sonata in B minor, etc. - Barenboim (Elatus)
Annees de Pelerinage - Ciccolini (EMI Rouge et Noir)
Harmonies, etc. - Ciccolini (EMI Rouge et Noir)

Regards
R***@gmail.com
2005-11-03 00:20:16 UTC
Permalink
In my experience Liszt is very performer dependent. This is not to be
confused with a weakness in the music, just that it's a litmus paper
test of a pianist's technique and musicianship. For ex, the Sonata can
sound like the backing to a silent film or one of the greatest works of
the 19th century - take your pick.

Annees de pelerinage vols 1-3 - surprised just how well Jando does this
for Naxos. Certainly better than Berman's DG thud-fest and with a
firmer technique than the later Brendel recordings.
Horowtz's Sony "live" performance of Valee d'Obermann is in a class by
itself. As are his early RCA recordings of the Hungarian Rhapsodies;
incendiary.

Arrau's disc of Liszt's Verdi transcriptions is one of the best of his
many excellent Liszt discs.

The late Chamber Music played by Reinbert de Leeuw and friends
(Phillips) is compelling.
R***@gmail.com
2005-11-03 00:20:23 UTC
Permalink
In my experience Liszt is very performer dependent. This is not to be
confused with a weakness in the music, just that it's a litmus paper
test of a pianist's technique and musicianship. For ex, the Sonata can
sound like the backing to a silent film or one of the greatest works of
the 19th century - take your pick.

Annees de pelerinage vols 1-3 - surprised just how well Jando does this
for Naxos. Certainly better than Berman's DG thud-fest and with a
firmer technique than the later Brendel recordings.
Horowtz's Sony "live" performance of Valee d'Obermann is in a class by
itself. As are his early RCA recordings of the Hungarian Rhapsodies;
incendiary.

Arrau's disc of Liszt's Verdi transcriptions is one of the best of his
many excellent Liszt discs.

The late Chamber Music played by Reinbert de Leeuw and friends
(Phillips) is compelling.
Citizen
2005-11-03 01:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Many of the pieces of his nearly life-long Anneès de Pelerinage (sp?,
a.k.a. Years of Pilgrimage). Some famous ones are the Petrarchan
sonnets, the Tarantella of Venezia e Napoli, the Dante Sonata/Fantasy
(forget which), and Les Cloches de Geneve (The Bells of Geneva).

Many of his Hungarian Rhapsodies are quite famous. His Spanish
Rhapsody is very interesting.

His two piano concertos, and Totentanz with orchestra are also famous.

His operatic transcriptions are also famous.

Recommendations:
A CD called something like " The Hungarian Rhapsodies Played by 19
Great Pianists" is good.

Cziffra's Liszt is often bombastic, individual, and even circus-like,
which mostly suits the music.

Most of Berman's Liszt is good.

A CD of Richter's 2 Liszt Concertos w/ Kondrashin & the London Symphony
(I think) is pretty good.

I like Argerich's PC1.

Horowitz is amazing in Liszt. His own transcriptions of Liszt's 6th
and especially 2nd Hungarian Rhapsodies are amazing. His transcription
of the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody sounds like it is played with four hands!
Citizen
2005-11-03 01:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Many of the pieces of his nearly life-long Anneès de Pelerinage (sp?,
a.k.a. Years of Pilgrimage). Some famous ones are the Petrarchan
sonnets, the Tarantella of Venezia e Napoli, the Dante Sonata/Fantasy
(forget which), and Les Cloches de Geneve (The Bells of Geneva).

Many of his Hungarian Rhapsodies are quite famous. His Spanish
Rhapsody is very interesting.

His two piano concertos, and Totentanz with orchestra are also famous.

His operatic transcriptions are also famous.

Recommendations:
A CD called something like " The Hungarian Rhapsodies Played by 19
Great Pianists" is good.

Cziffra's Liszt is often bombastic, individual, and even circus-like,
which mostly suits the music.

Most of Berman's Liszt is good.

A CD of Richter's 2 Liszt Concertos w/ Kondrashin & the London Symphony
(I think) is pretty good.

I like Argerich's PC1.

Horowitz is amazing in Liszt. His own transcriptions of Liszt's 6th
and especially 2nd Hungarian Rhapsodies are amazing. His transcription
of the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody sounds like it is played with four hands!
Ian Pace
2005-11-03 02:43:53 UTC
Permalink
Sonata - Horowitz, Brendel, Arrau, Richter should give the measure
Transcendental Etudes - Berman, Cziffra
Paganini Etudes - difficult to say, Darre is OK, I'm very fond of the early
Brendel recording
Concert Etudes - Bolet, Cziffra
Hungarian Rhapsodies - Szidon, and lots of individual recordings
(particularly Berman in No. 9 if you can find it)
Annees de Pelerinage - Berman, Ciccolini, Brendel's early recording of Book
2
Waltzes (Mephisto, Oubliees, etc.) - Howard (one of his best discs). Too
many good Mephisto 1's to list
Polonaises, Ballades, Legends - also a fine Howard disc. Brendel, Cziffra in
Legendes, Wild in Ballade No. 2, Cziffra in Polonaises.
Harmonies Poetique et Religieuses - don't know a really good complete
recording. Brendel in Benediction de Dieu (incandescent), Horowitz (and
numerous) in Funerailles
Late works - Brendel, Pollini, Howard

There are so many transcriptions, it's hard to know where to start with
recommendations. The following are important
Don Juan Fantasy - Wild, Ogdon, Barere
Other operatic fantasies - pieces to check out include any of the Verdi or
Wagner transcriptions, and those on Bellini Norma, Donizetti Lucia de
Lammermoor and Lucrezia Borgia, Waltz from Gounod's Faust. Ideal recordings
don't spring to mind - Howard's six double-CD sets will give you the measure
of the music, but are rather mixed (there are some very good things in them,
though, for example his recording of the two part fantasy on Meyerbeer's
L'Africaine)
Beethoven Symphonies - Katsaris
Schubert Songs - hard to say, I believe the Naxos recordings are pretty
good.

Cziffra boxed set on EMI is indispensable. Also, as mentioned elsewhere,
Wild's 'The Daemonic Liszt' for spectacular Don Juan Fantasy and Meybeer
Robert Le Diable Fantasy in particular.

That should be enough to be getting on with.

Ian
JohnGavin
2005-11-03 03:07:48 UTC
Permalink
A very good Liszt sampler is Hamelin plays Liszt on Hyperion. It has 3
Hungarian Rhapsodies - with a hair-raising cadenza for #2, some late
works, the Don Juan Fantasy and 2 Concert Etudes.

The Argerich Debut CD on DG has a great Sonata and Hungarian Rhapsody
#6.
d***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 12:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Argerich did NOT make her debut with the Liszt Sonata but she did with
the HR # 6.

That disc is a fraud!

TD
Sacqueboutier
2005-11-03 14:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com
Argerich did NOT make her debut with the Liszt Sonata but she did with
the HR # 6.
That disc is a fraud!
TD
Takes a fraud to know a fraud.
--
Best wishes,

Sacqueboutier
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