Discussion:
Amazon downgrade: deleting all comments to reviews
(too old to reply)
weary flake
2021-01-31 04:52:41 UTC
Permalink
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion. All these comments have been
censored by Amazon, without notice or possibility of retrieving
them.

So many reviews have been savaged by Amazon deleting comments!
How about all the John Fowler reviews that are now sabotaged
by Amazon?

Now before you cry the excuse "but classical music is only a
niche item" Amazon applied this to all reviews, whether music,
books or electronics.
Frank Berger
2021-01-31 05:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion. All these comments have been
censored by Amazon, without notice or possibility of retrieving
them.
So many reviews have been savaged by Amazon deleting comments!
How about all the John Fowler reviews that are now sabotaged
by Amazon?
Now before you cry the excuse "but classical music is only a
niche item" Amazon applied this to all reviews, whether music,
books or electronics.
The Amazon reviews themselves are so screwed up, they should
have been deleted as well. By screwed up, I don't mean
incompetent; I mean that Amazon has managed to connect
reviews for one recording to another. It happens so
frequently that unless the reviewer explicitly mentions what
recording he's reviewing you really don't know. This is so
well known I'm surprised you didn't mention it.

The word "censor" is not a synonym for "delete," which is
what Amazon has done to the comments, for good or bad.
Bob Harper
2021-02-01 00:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion.  All these comments have been
censored by Amazon, without notice or possibility of retrieving
them.
So many reviews have been savaged by Amazon deleting comments!
How about all the John Fowler reviews that are now sabotaged
by Amazon?
Now before you cry the excuse "but classical music is only a
niche item" Amazon applied this to all reviews, whether music,
books or electronics.
The Amazon reviews themselves are so screwed up, they should have been
deleted as well.  By screwed up, I don't mean incompetent; I mean that
Amazon has managed to connect reviews for one recording to another.  It
happens so frequently that unless the reviewer explicitly mentions what
recording he's reviewing you really don't know. This is so well known
I'm surprised you didn't mention it.
The word "censor" is not a synonym for "delete," which is what Amazon
has done to the comments, for good or bad.
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further evidence (were
any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care about accuracy in our field.
It's just another commodity to them.

And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak. I'm
not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an attitude all
too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other opinions.

Bob Harper
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 00:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further evidence (were
any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care about accuracy in our field.
It's just another commodity to them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak. I'm
not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an attitude all
too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
This "analysis" falls on its face. Amazon wasn't listening before or after. The comments have nothing to do with widespread cultural change. This is just pretext to blithely share your high moral pedigree with us once again, and do what you love to do- complain about other people.
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 01:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further evidence (were
any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care about accuracy in our field.
It's just another commodity to them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak. I'm
not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an attitude all
too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
This "analysis" falls on its face. Amazon wasn't listening before or after. The comments have nothing to do with widespread cultural change. This is just pretext to blithely share your high moral pedigree with us once again, and do what you love to do- complain about other people.
What is it with your crusade against Bob's voicing his
opinions or view of the world? Your hectoring sounds a lot
like the very intolerence that he is complaining about. You
are not just disagreeing with him. You are effectively
telling him to shut up. Nobody else, mind you, just him.
Because you don't like his politics. If one person can
prove his point, you have.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 02:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
What is it with your crusade against Bob's voicing his
opinions or view of the world?
I'm sorry that Bob finds reason to believe that others want to hear his views of the world, because they are almost always complaints and judgments of other people. Here he's complaining about "unwilling to listen to others opinions". I welcome a correction from him that suggests concretely that this really is a problem on both sides of the political spectrum instead of just the "woke" and "cancellers" he likes to complain about. His track record of aggressive, certain judgment doesn't make him a person who has an ounce of credibility as a generous, open, curious, sympathetic listener. He is here to offer judgment, period. That makes his complaint laughable.
Post by Frank Berger
Your hectoring sounds a lot
like the very intolerence that he is complaining about.
I really think the two of you should think a bit more about what you say. Was Bob complaining about people "not listening" or was he complaining about "intolerance"? They are two different things. But I've suggested that Bob's complaint about "listening" was really a veiled judgment about those who won't tolerate him or his beliefs, and you've showed us that was more than likely. And that is worthy of criticism. He's offering words that are self-interested and judgmental while offering a self-image (open, listening, and so forth) that is false. Rules for thee, not for me. That's what I hear.
Post by Frank Berger
You are not just disagreeing with him. You are effectively
telling him to shut up. Nobody else, mind you, just him.
I don't have any complaint with Bob when he offers a musical opinion, do I? Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us his world view (and in response to Amazon cancelling comments on reviews, as if you can't just write a review yourself mentioning the other review, OH MY GOD, the cultural decline!!) If you can't tell the difference between your considered, thoughtful (and I know you wouldn't forget the mechanisms of the market for a second), detailed offerings here and his drive-by judgments, I'm sorry. As a tag team, it seems you two will always be good cop, bad cop.
Post by Frank Berger
Because you don't like his politics. If one person can prove his point, you have.
Again, I gave him a bit more credit than to assume that "unwillingness to listen to other opinions" was just selfish, but you keep talking as if it was. You've thrown him under the bus without realizing it.
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 04:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
What is it with your crusade against Bob's voicing his
opinions or view of the world?
I'm sorry that Bob finds reason to believe that others want to hear his views of the world, because they are almost always complaints and judgments of other people. Here he's complaining about "unwilling to listen to others opinions". I welcome a correction from him that suggests concretely that this really is a problem on both sides of the political spectrum instead of just the "woke" and "cancellers" he likes to complain about. His track record of aggressive, certain judgment doesn't make him a person who has an ounce of credibility as a generous, open, curious, sympathetic listener. He is here to offer judgment, period. That makes his complaint laughable.
It's called opinion. He's entitled to his. You sound as if
you don't think he is.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Your hectoring sounds a lot
like the very intolerence that he is complaining about.
I really think the two of you should think a bit more about what you say.
You are an arrogant, SOB, aren't you?

Was Bob complaining about people "not listening" or was he
complaining about "intolerance"? They are two different
things. But I've suggested that Bob's complaint about
"listening" was really a veiled judgment about those who
won't tolerate him or his beliefs, and you've showed us that
was more than likely.

When you say "us," you mean "you."


And that is worthy of criticism. He's offering words that
are self-interested and judgmental while offering a
self-image (open, listening, and so forth) that is false.
Rules for thee, not for me. That's what I hear.
All opinions are judgemental. Even yours.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
You are not just disagreeing with him. You are effectively
telling him to shut up. Nobody else, mind you, just him.
I don't have any complaint with Bob when he offers a musical opinion, do I?
He's entitled to offer any opinions on any topic, whether
you like it or not.


Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and
it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us
his world view


There you are telling him to shut up, again.


(and in response to Amazon cancelling comments on reviews,
as if you can't just write a review yourself mentioning the
other review, OH MY GOD, the cultural decline!!) If you
can't tell the difference between your considered,
thoughtful (and I know you wouldn't forget the mechanisms of
the market for a second), detailed offerings here and his
drive-by judgments, I'm sorry. As a tag team, it seems you
two will always be good cop, bad cop.
All you had to say was that you didn't see any reason to
assume that the deleting of Amazon comments had anything to
do with politics, or cancel culture or political
correctness. With which I completely agree. Then this
conversation would never have happened. But you had to make
what a amounts to a personal attack. As you have done many
times.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Because you don't like his politics. If one person can prove his point, you have.
Again, I gave him a bit more credit than to assume that "unwillingness to listen to other opinions" was just selfish, but you keep talking as if it was. You've thrown him under the bus without realizing it.
I don't know what you mean by that, but it doesn't matter.
My response to you has nothing to do with whether I agree
with Bob, which I do on some things and don't on others.

In my perfect world, when someone offers an opinion here, I
would like to see people agree, disagree or ignore it with
logic, as if you were trying to win a high school debate.
Attacking the motives of the writer is cheap. And can never
win an argument on an issue, because it isn't one.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 14:27:28 UTC
Permalink
It's called opinion. He's entitled to his. You sound as if
you don't think he is.
Just what, Frank, do you and Bob think you are entitled to here? Perhaps you should spell that out. Please try to give an answer based on what is really possible and not emotion-based fantasies that are not actually possible, like "he want's to cancel us!"
You are an arrogant, SOB, aren't you?
Arrogance is thinking the world deserves your opinion, whether they have asked for it or not.
He's entitled to offer any opinions on any topic, whether
you like it or not.
That's 100% true, and I'm entitled state that his opinions are ugly and self-serving, as well. Where do you think any of this puts Bob in a better position? Oh, I'm rude, and he's not? If that's all that matters to you, yes, Bob is my better. And if that is all that matters to you, you won't get my respect, either.
Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and
it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us
his world view
There you are telling him to shut up, again.
Why the urge to reduce this to such simplicities? Asking him to leave out the politics is not the same thing as asking him to shut up. All your efforts to turn this into a black and white "cancel completely" vs. "thoughtless freedom" is pathetic. If you dealt with the specifics here, you might have to acknowledge that injection of politics into this group is potentially unhelpful and could probably be avoided with minimal effort or inconvenience. And we'd all be better for it.

But, yeah, Bob is free to tell us what he thinks of the world whenever he wants. Agreed!
All you had to say was that you didn't see any reason to
assume that the deleting of Amazon comments had anything to
do with politics, or cancel culture or political
correctness. With which I completely agree. Then this
conversation would never have happened. But you had to make
what a amounts to a personal attack. As you have done many
times.
Bob's comments are attacks on people, too. That's the point. Leave your belief system at the door, and talk about music. I can do it. Can you?
In my perfect world, when someone offers an opinion here, I
would like to see people agree, disagree or ignore it with
logic, as if you were trying to win a high school debate.
Attacking the motives of the writer is cheap. And can never
win an argument on an issue, because it isn't one.
This idea always leaves the subjects of the debate outside the venue. Bob thinks this is a place where he can attack and judge certain people. And my greatest wish is that he would recognize that those offerings are indeed as personal as anything else, and should be handled with as much hesitancy as any other personal judgment. If he can remember that, this will be a better place to discuss music.
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 15:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
It's called opinion. He's entitled to his. You sound as if
you don't think he is.
Just what, Frank, do you and Bob think you are entitled to here? Perhaps you should spell that out. Please try to give an answer based on what is really possible and not emotion-based fantasies that are not actually possible, like "he want's to cancel us!"
You are an arrogant, SOB, aren't you?
Arrogance is thinking the world deserves your opinion, whether they have asked for it or not.
He's entitled to offer any opinions on any topic, whether
you like it or not.
That's 100% true, and I'm entitled state that his opinions are ugly and self-serving, as well. Where do you think any of this puts Bob in a better position? Oh, I'm rude, and he's not? If that's all that matters to you, yes, Bob is my better. And if that is all that matters to you, you won't get my respect, either.
Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and
it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us
his world view
There you are telling him to shut up, again.
Why the urge to reduce this to such simplicities? Asking him to leave out the politics is not the same thing as asking him to shut up. All your efforts to turn this into a black and white "cancel completely" vs. "thoughtless freedom" is pathetic. If you dealt with the specifics here, you might have to acknowledge that injection of politics into this group is potentially unhelpful and could probably be avoided with minimal effort or inconvenience. And we'd all be better for it.
But, yeah, Bob is free to tell us what he thinks of the world whenever he wants. Agreed!
All you had to say was that you didn't see any reason to
assume that the deleting of Amazon comments had anything to
do with politics, or cancel culture or political
correctness. With which I completely agree. Then this
conversation would never have happened. But you had to make
what a amounts to a personal attack. As you have done many
times.
Bob's comments are attacks on people, too. That's the point. Leave your belief system at the door, and talk about music. I can do it. Can you?
In my perfect world, when someone offers an opinion here, I
would like to see people agree, disagree or ignore it with
logic, as if you were trying to win a high school debate.
Attacking the motives of the writer is cheap. And can never
win an argument on an issue, because it isn't one.
This idea always leaves the subjects of the debate outside the venue. Bob thinks this is a place where he can attack and judge certain people. And my greatest wish is that he would recognize that those offerings are indeed as personal as anything else, and should be handled with as much hesitancy as any other personal judgment. If he can remember that, this will be a better place to discuss music.
You've said it all, I think. Any further replies to your
statements would be entirely superfluous. Except to say it's
kind of sad that you don't see a difference between someone
complaining, say, about what he sees as a cancel culture and
an ad hominem attack in response.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 15:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
It's called opinion. He's entitled to his. You sound as if
you don't think he is.
Just what, Frank, do you and Bob think you are entitled to here? Perhaps you should spell that out. Please try to give an answer based on what is really possible and not emotion-based fantasies that are not actually possible, like "he want's to cancel us!"
You are an arrogant, SOB, aren't you?
Arrogance is thinking the world deserves your opinion, whether they have asked for it or not.
He's entitled to offer any opinions on any topic, whether
you like it or not.
That's 100% true, and I'm entitled state that his opinions are ugly and self-serving, as well. Where do you think any of this puts Bob in a better position? Oh, I'm rude, and he's not? If that's all that matters to you, yes, Bob is my better. And if that is all that matters to you, you won't get my respect, either.
Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and
it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us
his world view
There you are telling him to shut up, again.
Why the urge to reduce this to such simplicities? Asking him to leave out the politics is not the same thing as asking him to shut up. All your efforts to turn this into a black and white "cancel completely" vs. "thoughtless freedom" is pathetic. If you dealt with the specifics here, you might have to acknowledge that injection of politics into this group is potentially unhelpful and could probably be avoided with minimal effort or inconvenience. And we'd all be better for it.
But, yeah, Bob is free to tell us what he thinks of the world whenever he wants. Agreed!
All you had to say was that you didn't see any reason to
assume that the deleting of Amazon comments had anything to
do with politics, or cancel culture or political
correctness. With which I completely agree. Then this
conversation would never have happened. But you had to make
what a amounts to a personal attack. As you have done many
times.
Bob's comments are attacks on people, too. That's the point. Leave your belief system at the door, and talk about music. I can do it. Can you?
In my perfect world, when someone offers an opinion here, I
would like to see people agree, disagree or ignore it with
logic, as if you were trying to win a high school debate.
Attacking the motives of the writer is cheap. And can never
win an argument on an issue, because it isn't one.
This idea always leaves the subjects of the debate outside the venue. Bob thinks this is a place where he can attack and judge certain people. And my greatest wish is that he would recognize that those offerings are indeed as personal as anything else, and should be handled with as much hesitancy as any other personal judgment. If he can remember that, this will be a better place to discuss music.
You've said it all, I think. Any further replies to your
statements would be entirely superfluous. Except to say it's
kind of sad that you don't see a difference between someone
complaining, say, about what he sees as a cancel culture and
an ad hominem attack in response.
westover
2021-02-01 04:19:02 UTC
Permalink
hey mswd ..... chill out.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 14:04:26 UTC
Permalink
hey mswd ..... chill out.
Sorry, I'm sick of my time here being one where I have to read Harper's complaints about the people who he disagrees with, dislikes and is better than. You see, I don't ignore him or deny his value to this group as a music lover. So I do read what he writes. Many here would be delighted if he would just focus on the music and leave his moral sentiments to private conversation. But he is arrogant enough to think that his judging other people has social value even when he isn't sure who will read it.
Owen
2021-02-01 15:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
hey mswd ..... chill out.
Sorry, I'm sick of my time here being one where I have to read Harper's complaints about the people who he disagrees with, dislikes and is better than. You see, I don't ignore him or deny his value to this group as a music lover. So I do read what he writes. Many here would be delighted if he would just focus on the music and leave his moral sentiments to private conversation. But he is arrogant enough to think that his judging other people has social value even when he isn't sure who will read it.
If you are reading usenet through a real usenet app (as opposed to
Google Groups), there is a thing called a "kill file" to which you can
add users whom you don't want to read. It's equivalent to the block
callers on your phone, except it works. Thunderbird has the function
named "filters" but I don't know if Google Groups has an equivalent.

-Owen
wkasimer
2021-02-01 15:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Sorry, I'm sick of my time here
You're not alone.
Bob Harper
2021-02-01 19:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
hey mswd ..... chill out.
Sorry, I'm sick of my time here being one where I have to read Harper's complaints about the people who he disagrees with, dislikes and is better than. You see, I don't ignore him or deny his value to this group as a music lover. So I do read what he writes. Many here would be delighted if he would just focus on the music and leave his moral sentiments to private conversation. But he is arrogant enough to think that his judging other people has social value even when he isn't sure who will read it.
It is not now, never has been, nor will it ever be, your decision as to
the scope of my comments here. You are free to ignore what I say, and to
disagree if you are able to do so politely, but your modus operandi as
demonstrated will elicit nothing, if anything, but my contempt.

Bob Harper
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 23:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
It is not now, never has been, nor will it ever be, your decision as to
the scope of my comments here.
There's nothing here that suggests otherwise. You've assailed me for me for an excess of self-love, pride, and so forth, but I've not written anything so self-important as this. Past, present, future, it is impossible for me to limit you in any way. Any nitwit knows that.

You are free to ignore what I say, and to
Post by Bob Harper
disagree if you are able to do so politely,
Ah, now we are getting down to it- you think you're entitled to something.

but your modus operandi as
Post by Bob Harper
demonstrated will elicit nothing, if anything, but my contempt.
Bob Harper
I'm certain in your framework of the world you probably already have contempt for me, Bob. Your contempt is on regular display, and however politely you offer it, your sentiments are ugly. By all means, continue to be yourself.
Bob Harper
2021-02-02 00:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
It is not now, never has been, nor will it ever be, your decision as to
the scope of my comments here.
There's nothing here that suggests otherwise. You've assailed me for me for an excess of self-love, pride, and so forth, but I've not written anything so self-important as this. Past, present, future, it is impossible for me to limit you in any way. Any nitwit knows that.
Glad you understand that.
Post by ***@gmail.com
You are free to ignore what I say, and to
Post by Bob Harper
disagree if you are able to do so politely,
Ah, now we are getting down to it- you think you're entitled to something.
I guess I was wrong above. Sorry.
Post by ***@gmail.com
but your modus operandi as
Post by Bob Harper
demonstrated will elicit nothing, if anything, but my contempt.
Bob Harper
I'm certain in your framework of the world you probably already have contempt for me, Bob. Your contempt is on regular display, and however politely you offer it, your sentiments are ugly. By all means, continue to be yourself.
Enjoy your smugness, fellow.

Bob Harsper
Bob Harper
2021-02-01 19:36:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
What is it with your crusade against Bob's voicing his
opinions or view of the world?
I'm sorry that Bob finds reason to believe that others want to hear his views of the world, because they are almost always complaints and judgments of other people. Here he's complaining about "unwilling to listen to others opinions". I welcome a correction from him that suggests concretely that this really is a problem on both sides of the political spectrum instead of just the "woke" and "cancellers" he likes to complain about. His track record of aggressive, certain judgment doesn't make him a person who has an ounce of credibility as a generous, open, curious, sympathetic listener. He is here to offer judgment, period. That makes his complaint laughable.
Post by Frank Berger
Your hectoring sounds a lot
like the very intolerence that he is complaining about.
I really think the two of you should think a bit more about what you say. Was Bob complaining about people "not listening" or was he complaining about "intolerance"? They are two different things. But I've suggested that Bob's complaint about "listening" was really a veiled judgment about those who won't tolerate him or his beliefs, and you've showed us that was more than likely. And that is worthy of criticism. He's offering words that are self-interested and judgmental while offering a self-image (open, listening, and so forth) that is false. Rules for thee, not for me. That's what I hear.
Post by Frank Berger
You are not just disagreeing with him. You are effectively
telling him to shut up. Nobody else, mind you, just him.
I don't have any complaint with Bob when he offers a musical opinion, do I? Are you saying that poor Bob just can't help himself, and it's just oh, so not fair for me to think he could spare us his world view (and in response to Amazon cancelling comments on reviews, as if you can't just write a review yourself mentioning the other review, OH MY GOD, the cultural decline!!) If you can't tell the difference between your considered, thoughtful (and I know you wouldn't forget the mechanisms of the market for a second), detailed offerings here and his drive-by judgments, I'm sorry. As a tag team, it seems you two will always be good cop, bad cop.
Post by Frank Berger
Because you don't like his politics. If one person can prove his point, you have.
Again, I gave him a bit more credit than to assume that "unwillingness to listen to other opinions" was just selfish, but you keep talking as if it was. You've thrown him under the bus without realizing it.
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.

Bob Harper
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 23:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
Bob Harper
2021-02-02 00:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.

Bob Harper
Frank Berger
2021-02-02 02:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 1:36:41 PM UTC-6, Bob
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but
afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of
amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
In a nutshell:

You say something he doesn't like.

He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.

Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really
good form, but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs
put you so low in his eyes that his breech of etiquette
becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-02 05:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really
good form, but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs
put you so low in his eyes that his breech of etiquette
becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
If you can't imagine any other motivation for telling Harper that his politics are ugly, then have your stunted analysis. I don't feel superior when I read Harper, I feel loathe. I never asked to hear his opinion on the "woke" or any number of other things he feels free to spout off about here, and when I read those comments I get angry. Who the hell does he think he is? This is a public forum about classical music and I, for one, think it would be a far better place we all shut the hell up about their politics, and showed caution about other topics - like, oh, choosing to take the occasion of her reported sexual assault to discuss whether Lara St. John made smart career decisions. (A choice, Frank, that you could only question with a wink- what a fine pair you two make.) Etiquette? Neither of you deserve the comfort and freedom you exercise here.
Frank Berger
2021-02-02 05:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really
good form, but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs
put you so low in his eyes that his breech of etiquette
becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
If you can't imagine any other motivation for telling Harper that his politics are ugly, then have your stunted analysis. I don't feel superior when I read Harper, I feel loathe. I never asked to hear his opinion on the "woke" or any number of other things he feels free to spout off about here, and when I read those comments I get angry. Who the hell does he think he is? This is a public forum about classical music and I, for one, think it would be a far better place we all shut the hell up about their politics, and showed caution about other topics - like, oh, choosing to take the occasion of her reported sexual assault to discuss whether Lara St. John made smart career decisions. (A choice, Frank, that you could only question with a wink- what a fine pair you two make.) Etiquette? Neither of you deserve the comfort and freedom you exercise here.
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-02 17:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-02 17:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
You know, a big person might think "even though I know I'm right about these topics, I know they are upsetting to some people, so perhaps I should just avoid them. If I really want to talk about them, I can do so privately." This is the kind of graciousness that is alien to Harper and which you, with your mechanical notions of freedom can't reach for. Selfishness is baked in to your politics.
Frank Berger
2021-02-02 17:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
You know, a big person might think "even though I know I'm right about these topics, I know they are upsetting to some people, so perhaps I should just avoid them. If I really want to talk about them, I can do so privately." This is the kind of graciousness that is alien to Harper and which you, with your mechanical notions of freedom can't reach for. Selfishness is baked in to your politics.
I suppose that is true to an extent. You might also
consider that a "big person," offended by what someone else
says, might just ignore it.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-02 23:56:39 UTC
Permalink
I suppose that is true to an extent. You might also
consider that a "big person," offended by what someone else
says, might just ignore it.
This is also completely true. I'm aware that my behavior here is a certain kind of failure.
Frank Berger
2021-02-02 17:31:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
Personally, I have never once started an off-topic thread.
I do participate in them. As do you. So your complaint
amounts to saying it's OK for you to vent about what bothers
you but not OK for "us."

If all you are saying is that it takes a certain amount of
hubris, arrogance, chutzpah, whatever, to participate in OT
discussions, well maybe that's true. I don't know what it
is about you that induces such rage when someone else
violates your personal code of RMCR etiquette, but you
should consider whether your reaction is, just possibly,
excessive.

By the way, did you ever slam Steve Haufe (Bozo) for his
frequent Trump-bashing? Or any other Trump bashing for that
matter? If not, that would seem to expose that your
so-called code of RMRC etiquette is really just political.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-02 23:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
Personally, I have never once started an off-topic thread.
I do participate in them. As do you. So your complaint
amounts to saying it's OK for you to vent about what bothers
you but not OK for "us."
If all you are saying is that it takes a certain amount of
hubris, arrogance, chutzpah, whatever, to participate in OT
discussions, well maybe that's true. I don't know what it
is about you that induces such rage when someone else
violates your personal code of RMCR etiquette, but you
should consider whether your reaction is, just possibly,
excessive.
By the way, did you ever slam Steve Haufe (Bozo) for his
frequent Trump-bashing? Or any other Trump bashing for that
matter? If not, that would seem to expose that your
so-called code of RMRC etiquette is really just political.
These are all good points. I can't say I've noticed Bozo, but nonetheless a good point.
Frank Berger
2021-02-03 00:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by ***@gmail.com
Of course you just confirmed exactly what I said. "Ugly,"
"loathe," you never "asked" to hear his opinion. Who the
hell do you think you are, anyway? Who gets to ask to hear
others opinions? What is so special about you? If we don't
deserve comfort and freedom "here," I suppose we don't
deserve it anywhere. I'll be watching my back.
Here is not anywhere. Here is rec.music.classical.recordings, and if you think this is the place to complain comfortably, publicly about the "woke", for instance, you have a problem of self-entitlement. This isn't your country club.
Personally, I have never once started an off-topic thread.
I do participate in them. As do you. So your complaint
amounts to saying it's OK for you to vent about what bothers
you but not OK for "us."
If all you are saying is that it takes a certain amount of
hubris, arrogance, chutzpah, whatever, to participate in OT
discussions, well maybe that's true. I don't know what it
is about you that induces such rage when someone else
violates your personal code of RMCR etiquette, but you
should consider whether your reaction is, just possibly,
excessive.
By the way, did you ever slam Steve Haufe (Bozo) for his
frequent Trump-bashing? Or any other Trump bashing for that
matter? If not, that would seem to expose that your
so-called code of RMRC etiquette is really just political.
These are all good points. I can't say I've noticed Bozo, but nonetheless a good point.
An amazing concession. And appreciated.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-04 01:11:16 UTC
Permalink
An amazing concession. And appreciated.
Frank passed to me some thoughtful words by email and while I'm tired enough that I don't think I can respond to them directly really well, the first one was about the motivations that inspire anger and the difference between online anger and anger expressed in your real world.

I never really took the phrase "kill 'em with kindness" very seriously, but I do now- any sense of the appropriateness of my anger pretty much vanished in the face of Frank's calm resolve and willingness to email me directly. I knew my anger wasn't a good thing and now feel even more... dumb. Other words come to mind.

I began to think about Frank's observations and what, if you'll forgive the word, my "inspiration" is here. Professionally, I'm very easy to work with- nothing matters more than how well others view what I offer them, and I make it my business to be appreciated even by those whose personal interests and politics might conflict with my own. Caution and focus on building positive relationships is always my chief interest. And generally, I am successful. Because this is my "muscle group" where politics is concerned, means casual conversation with political under/overtones isn't my thing. I am always aware that the risks of speaking one's mind are always greater than the potential reward. And I don't even trust political conversations with people I might mostly agree with- in fact, I'm more interested, honestly with those I differ with- at least when what they say doesn't just make me angry.

So what is it that Bob's casual judgments leave me with? Today I'm wondering if it isn't a bit of jealousy, never minding the degree of anger that also comes with it. To my mind there has to be a difference where Bob feels entitled to offer such words (and here I don't mean it in a bad way, per se) and I don't. I suppose that's my problem. And no doubt the fact that when I drop my filters, what I really have is some red-meat hunger for political blood- that's also my problem.

I don't like a lot of what Bob has to say. My problem. Bob is smart, and when he takes the time, he has interesting things to offer, even when I suspect I'm never going to think that way. And I like that. No doubt it is my job to deal with my anger better, and not exploit this group as perhaps the one place I might be a raging ass and not have anyone really notice.

I'm not sure if that is much of an apology, Bob, but if I'm going to ask for more consideration from you, I can't let my anger fly and have any credibility. That truth eventually weighs me down over time as the anger dissipates.

So I don't think we'll be seeing eye to eye soon, but if you can think about how some people may feel in reaction to breezy judgments, I'd like to vow I've had enough of making a fool of myself. And if I can't handle the rules of the playing field, as much as they are just convention and courtesy, I should go some place else.

I do hope, above else, to be able to talk about music. And politics in a way that isn't simply complaints about people, groups of people, parties, whatever. Looking forward to it.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-03 00:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Personally, I have never once started an off-topic thread.
I do participate in them. As do you. So your complaint
amounts to saying it's OK for you to vent about what bothers
you but not OK for "us."
I really do believe that there is a redeeming way to talk about politics here, and it begins with the awareness that those you might be quickest to condemn may be your immediate companions. And that means presenting your thoughts not as judgments you savor and enjoy, but in a way that welcomes discussion. I have a hard time recognizing any such interest in Bob's posts. Complaints are not friendly invitations to thought. And if the only reason we mention these things is for affirmation, then we abuse the group.

By they way, Bob never sounds like an idiot. If Bozo is unhinged in his rants, it is pretty easy to turn away (and forget- I don't have any Bozo memories). Not that he isn't abusing all of us as well.
Todd Michel McComb
2021-02-03 05:58:17 UTC
Permalink
... and it begins with the awareness that those you might be
quickest to condemn may be your immediate companions.
Maybe you should just say that you've been offended by the remarks.

In that sense, the politics is irrelevant.
Bob Harper
2021-02-02 18:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
You say something he doesn't like.
He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really good form,
but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs put you so low in his
eyes that his breech of etiquette becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
Yeah, pretty much. I should follow my best judgment, which is to ignore
trolls.

Bob Harper
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-02-02 22:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
You say something he doesn't like.
He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really good form,
but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs put you so low in his
eyes that his breech of etiquette becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
Yeah, pretty much. I should follow my best judgment, which is to ignore
trolls.
Bob Harper
One man's "troll" is another man's "voice of reason", is what I find.

Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
2021-02-03 00:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
You say something he doesn't like.
He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really good form,
but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs put you so low in his
eyes that his breech of etiquette becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
Yeah, pretty much. I should follow my best judgment, which is to ignore
trolls.
Bob Harper
One man's "troll" is another man's "voice of reason", is what I find.
Ray Hall, Taree
I think Bob misused the word Troll. If anything, posting a
provocative off-topic message that is sure to begin a raging
argument is closed to what trolling is, as I understand it.
Sorry, Bob. I calls it as I sees it.
Bob Harper
2021-02-03 01:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
You say something he doesn't like.
He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really good form,
but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs put you so low in his
eyes that his breech of etiquette becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
Yeah, pretty much. I should follow my best judgment, which is to ignore
trolls.
Bob Harper
One man's "troll" is another man's "voice of reason", is what I find.
Ray Hall, Taree
I think Bob misused the word Troll.  If anything, posting a provocative
off-topic message that is sure to begin a raging argument is closed to
what trolling is, as I understand it. Sorry, Bob.  I calls it as I sees it.
Fair enough, and food for thought.

Bob Harper
weary flake
2021-02-03 21:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Hm. Not only smug and full of virtue signalling, but afflicted with
logorrhea as well. You really do suffer from an excess of amour propre.
This from the guy who protests "you don't know me".
oour behavior here exposes you.
Bob Harper
You say something he doesn't like.
He launches an ad hominem attack, for which he is reprimanded.
Some part of him knows that what he has done is not really good form, but he has the moral high ground. Your beliefs put you so low in his eyes that his breech of etiquette becomes acceptable, even mandatory.
Yeah, pretty much. I should follow my best judgment, which is to ignore trolls.
But consider your stalker's viewpoint, you are being
unfair to msw by not responding in an outraged manner,
with f words, threats and the like, when he's spending so
much effort to rile you. Since you haven't mimicked
your stalker, you are being "unfair" to his television
brand of politics.
Oscar
2021-02-01 06:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Wow, just reading this. Disturbing yet not surprising. I have been anti-Amazon for a couple years now, drastically reducing my consumption therefrom, but, welp, I did just pick up the Reiner Columbia Original Jacket Collection box yesterday . . . Anyway, I gotta get a divorce from this awful company. All of us in this group have learned a great deal from Amazon reviews and replies thereto. Therefore, I'm ticked off! And there's no ands ifs and buts about it! There, I said it!
Bob Harper
2021-02-01 19:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further evidence (were
any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care about accuracy in our field.
It's just another commodity to them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak. I'm
not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an attitude all
too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
This "analysis" falls on its face. Amazon wasn't listening before or
after. The comments have nothing to do with widespread cultural
change. This is just pretext to blithely share your high moral
pedigree with us once again, and do what you love to do- complain
about other people.
What is it with your crusade against Bob's voicing his opinions or view
of the world?  Your hectoring sounds a lot like the very intolerence
that he is complaining about. You are not just disagreeing with him.
You are effectively telling him to shut up.  Nobody else, mind you, just
him. Because you don't like his politics.  If one person can prove his
point, you have.
Thanks Frank. Once again you have said it better than I would have, as I
would likely have lost my temper, usually not a good thing to do.
Bob Harper
2021-02-01 19:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further evidence (were
any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care about accuracy in our field.
It's just another commodity to them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak. I'm
not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an attitude all
too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
This "analysis" falls on its face. Amazon wasn't listening before or after. The comments have nothing to do with widespread cultural change. This is just pretext to blithely share your high moral pedigree with us once again, and do what you love to do- complain about other people.
Once again demonstrating YOUR moral superiority, eh? No sale.

Bob Harper
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-02-01 22:39:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Once again demonstrating YOUR moral superiority, eh? No sale.
Bob Harper
I'm asking you to improve your sense of courtesy. Morals- mine or yours - has nothing to do with it.
Bob Harper
2021-02-02 00:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Bob Harper
Once again demonstrating YOUR moral superiority, eh? No sale.
Bob Harper
I'm asking you to improve your sense of courtesy. Morals- mine or yours - has nothing to do with it.
!

Bob Harper
Todd Michel McComb
2021-02-01 01:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is too weak.
I'm not sure what the right term is, but it is indicative of an
attitude all too common today--the unwillingness to listen to other
opinions.
The old saw that comes to mind more for me is "power corrupts &
absolute power corrupts absolutely." Who doesn't care if the quality
of their product suffers, even so as to be obvious to consumers?
Monopolists, that's who.

Cultural change? How about when Bill Clinton took anti-monopoly
out of the Democratic Party platform?
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 01:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals,
technical
corrections and discussion.  All these comments have been
censored by Amazon, without notice or possibility of
retrieving
them.
So many reviews have been savaged by Amazon deleting
comments!
How about all the John Fowler reviews that are now sabotaged
by Amazon?
Now before you cry the excuse "but classical music is only a
niche item" Amazon applied this to all reviews, whether
music,
books or electronics.
The Amazon reviews themselves are so screwed up, they
should have been deleted as well.  By screwed up, I don't
mean incompetent; I mean that Amazon has managed to
connect reviews for one recording to another.  It happens
so frequently that unless the reviewer explicitly mentions
what recording he's reviewing you really don't know. This
is so well known I'm surprised you didn't mention it.
The word "censor" is not a synonym for "delete," which is
what Amazon has done to the comments, for good or bad.
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further
evidence (were any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care
about accuracy in our field. It's just another commodity to
them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is
too weak. I'm not sure what the right term is, but it is
indicative of an attitude all too common today--the
unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
Bob Harper
I don't think we know why Amazon "deleted" the comments.
Graham
2021-02-01 05:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Bob Harper
Post by Frank Berger
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals,
technical
corrections and discussion.  All these comments have been
censored by Amazon, without notice or possibility of
retrieving
them.
So many reviews have been savaged by Amazon deleting
comments!
How about all the John Fowler reviews that are now sabotaged
by Amazon?
Now before you cry the excuse "but classical music is only a
niche item" Amazon applied this to all reviews, whether
music,
books or electronics.
The Amazon reviews themselves are so screwed up, they
should have been deleted as well.  By screwed up, I don't
mean incompetent; I mean that Amazon has managed to
connect reviews for one recording to another.  It happens
so frequently that unless the reviewer explicitly mentions
what recording he's reviewing you really don't know. This
is so well known I'm surprised you didn't mention it.
The word "censor" is not a synonym for "delete," which is
what Amazon has done to the comments, for good or bad.
Yes, the misattribution of reviews is maddening, further
evidence (were any needed) that Amazon really doesn't care
about accuracy in our field. It's just another commodity to
them.
And of course 'censor' is the wrong word, but 'delete' is
too weak. I'm not sure what the right term is, but it is
indicative of an attitude all too common today--the
unwillingness to listen to other opinions.
Bob Harper
I don't think we know why Amazon "deleted" the comments.
I wonder if they were not "verified purchasers".
I once left a book review on Amazon, although I'd bought the book from a
book store. It was there for a few weeks before being deleted.
Mr. Mike
2021-02-01 19:07:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 00:04:55 -0500, Frank Berger
Post by Frank Berger
The Amazon reviews themselves are so screwed up, they should
have been deleted as well. By screwed up, I don't mean
incompetent; I mean that Amazon has managed to connect
reviews for one recording to another.
This is quite true. There was one complete box set of Hawaii Five-O
episodes released which was universally panned because the quality of
the discs was the shits. Amazon merged these negative reviews with
those for a previous box set (well reviewed) which made the average
score for reviews much higher...
Herman
2021-02-01 12:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion.
Well, I checked, and the customer reviews are still there, just not all the appendices by other commenters.

I am not sure people wrote those miniature reviews with the explicit intent to invite third-part comments, as you aver. Apart from the fact (or make that an opinion) that many of these reviews were complete and total subjective nonsense, there used to be the problem of misattribution. People giving their opinion of different recordings.

I don't think I'm being overly cynical when I say Amazon was not allowing for these comments in order to create unofficial talk groups about music. They're there to sell product. Maybe they thought these discussions were just unnecessary bandwidth eaters.

The solution to this very very first world problem would be to comment on other people's reviews, if you must, by posting it as a review.
Frank Berger
2021-02-01 13:12:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion.
Well, I checked, and the customer reviews are still there, just not all the appendices by other commenters.
Which is exactly what the OP said.
Post by Herman
I am not sure people wrote those miniature reviews with the explicit intent to invite third-part comments, as you aver. Apart from the fact (or make that an opinion) that many of these reviews were complete and total subjective nonsense, there used to be the problem of misattribution. People giving their opinion of different recordings.
The problem of "misattribution," as you call it, still
exists, and is rampant.
Post by Herman
I don't think I'm being overly cynical when I say Amazon was not allowing for these comments in order to create unofficial talk groups about music. They're there to sell product. Maybe they thought these discussions were just unnecessary bandwidth eaters.
Agree 100%.
Post by Herman
The solution to this very very first world problem would be to comment on other people's reviews, if you must, by posting it as a review.
weary flake
2021-02-03 22:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by weary flake
So Amazon has quietly deleted all comments to all reviews.
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on, and I used to see comments written by the
reviewer to add to their review as well as rebuttals, technical
corrections and discussion.
Well, I checked, and the customer reviews are still there, just not all the appendices by other commenters.
I am not sure people wrote those miniature reviews with the explicit intent to invite third-part comments, as you aver.
Most of John Fowler's reviews have been ruined by deleting
comments, as have countless other reviews. The end of many
of his reviews said "check comments" for further
information that he gives.
Post by Herman
Apart from the fact (or make that an opinion) that many of these reviews were complete and total subjective nonsense,
The most nonsensical reviews are those which do not
refer to the product in question but only give
generalizations: most reviews are like this, but even
these reviews can be useful if there are also reviews
that are specific to the product in question.
Post by Herman
there used to be the problem of misattribution. People giving their opinion of different recordings.
"Used to be"? Mis-attribution is a greater problem than
before. Up to last year or so ago a gaggle of different
products jumbled together in reviews could be sorted out
into specific items by clicking Read All Reviews and
then clicking on the Format column, the fifth column item
that appears, and clicking on the format item listed. I
used this routinely until this was removed. It came back
briefly, sometimes was different on other countries
Amazons, then disappeared; it was also an un-announced
deletion.

If you are unaccustomed to reading Amazon reviews why do you
comment here, is it just to say we are 'whining'?
Post by Herman
I don't think I'm being overly cynical when I say Amazon was not allowing for these comments in order to create unofficial talk groups about music. They're there to sell product. Maybe they thought these discussions were just unnecessary bandwidth eaters.
The solution to this very very first world problem
Marxists are industry apologists with their "all business is
equal therefore no businesses can be criticized." Amazon is
actually international and non-first worlder's also buy and
sell on Amazon, and we normal anti-Marxist people can criticize
Amazon and other business, no matter how much you say it is
"whining".
Post by Herman
would be to comment on other people's reviews, if you must, by posting it as a review.
Yes, that is now necessary, and a serious downgrade of
Amazon for reviews starting in the last few months,
but even worse is the gutting out of over 20 years of
reviews, some of which were useful to the present day.
Todd Michel McComb
2021-02-03 22:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Marxists are industry apologists with their "all business is equal
therefore no businesses can be criticized."
What a bizarre remark.
Mr. Mike
2021-02-01 19:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by weary flake
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on...
Whoever told you this?

Amazon has done stuff like this before:

They used to have discussion forums where you could talk about various
subjects, not connected with purchases. These were closed October 6,
2017. IMDb used to have forums like this where people talked about
movies, TV shows, etc. as well as a private messaging system, this was
shut down on February 20, 2017. IMDb is owned a company which is a
subsidiary of Amazon.

On Amazon you can only see past feedback with some difficulty. On
Ebay, you can quickly isolate all negative feedback by itself because
there are stats showing the totals for positive, negative, etc.
feedback. Amazon only lets you see a limited number per screen and you
have to manually go back a page at a time to see each individual
negative feedback, for example.

Amazon has "storefronts" where you can see all of a marketplace
seller's items. Unfortunately, this only works for these sellers who
pay a certain fee to Amazon each month which gives them certain
privileges. If you are a low-ball seller with a small inventory and
you don't have this level of service, which means you pay Amazon
higher fees, you don't get this kind of treatment. This change started
last spring, from what I am told. This makes it impossible to return
to a seller who you want to give business to because they may have a
certain kind of product you have purchased from them in the past.
weary flake
2021-02-03 22:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Mike
Post by weary flake
The reviews were written with the idea that they could be
commented on...
Whoever told you this?
Whoever has read reviews on Amazon in the past knew
that reviews could be commented on. Some reviews
explicitly told readers to check comments for updates.
Post by Mr. Mike
They used to have discussion forums where you could talk about various
subjects, not connected with purchases. These were closed October 6,
2017. IMDb used to have forums like this where people talked about
movies, TV shows, etc. as well as a private messaging system, this was
shut down on February 20, 2017. IMDb is owned a company which is a
subsidiary of Amazon.
Al least they announced those deletions so we knew about it
in advance. Now Amazon is more hostile and is mass deleting
without telling.
Post by Mr. Mike
On Amazon you can only see past feedback with some difficulty. On
Ebay, you can quickly isolate all negative feedback by itself because
there are stats showing the totals for positive, negative, etc.
feedback. Amazon only lets you see a limited number per screen and you
have to manually go back a page at a time to see each individual
negative feedback, for example.
Reading feedback on Amazon used to show more feedback on each
screen before, but it was never that useful because the feedback
doesn't refer to specific items or categories. I would expect
sellers who also sell items like used auto parts or toys to have
a heavier negative total feedback than sellers who only sell
more reliable items like CDs.
Post by Mr. Mike
Amazon has "storefronts" where you can see all of a marketplace
seller's items. Unfortunately, this only works for these sellers who
pay a certain fee to Amazon each month which gives them certain
privileges. If you are a low-ball seller with a small inventory and
you don't have this level of service, which means you pay Amazon
higher fees, you don't get this kind of treatment. This change started
last spring, from what I am told. This makes it impossible to return
to a seller who you want to give business to because they may have a
certain kind of product you have purchased from them in the past.
Almost everytime I clicked on an Amazon Storefront I didn't see
anything categorized, so I've just looked under Products or on
ebay, Items For Sale. I didn't know that Amazon decided to
disable storefront for all but the select few.
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