Discussion:
Best Bolero
(too old to reply)
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-01-10 18:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.

Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.

If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
dk
2021-01-10 22:07:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious
question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen
to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo
several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-
pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
No one has asked because the answer has been obvious for decades:



dk
Herman
2021-01-11 09:53:34 UTC
Permalink
There is this delightful story about Ravel running into a man who proudly told him he had a copy of the Bolero recording on a bunch of 78s.

He insisted on playing them to Ravel, who could not fathom why anyone would want to have these records.

Imagine this guy changing the records as the crescendo kept building in his mind.

The Bolero is a novelty piece composed so that Ida Rubinstein could perform a sexy dance (she was not a very good dancer, but she had a lot of money), and the orchestra could stun the audience with its power. In Ravel's mind this only worked in live.
dk
2021-01-11 16:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman
There is this delightful story about Ravel running into a man who
proudly told him he had a copy of the Bolero recording on a bunch
of 78s.
He insisted on playing them to Ravel, who could not fathom why
anyone would want to have these records.
Imagine this guy changing the records as the crescendo kept building in his mind.
The Bolero is a novelty piece composed so that Ida Rubinstein could
perform a sexy dance (she was not a very good dancer, but she had a
lot of money), and the orchestra could stun the audience with its power.
In Ravel's mind this only worked in live.
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."

dk
Andy Evans
2021-01-11 18:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew containing Amanita Phalloides"....
dk
2021-01-11 18:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew containing Amanita Phalloides"....
Pronto!


dk
Bob Harper
2021-01-11 22:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew containing Amanita Phalloides"....
No, according to a good friend of mine, the mushroom comparison would
apply to the music of Pfitzner. He observed to me once that the opera
'Palestrina' could suck all the oxygen out of a room :).

Bob Harper
Alan Dawes
2021-01-12 10:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
dk
2021-01-12 19:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
Of course there is one -- I posted about it a while ago:


There is even an orchestral version! ;-)


dk
dk
2021-01-12 19:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
http://youtu.be/0vzOWzxQDyA
There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
http://youtu.be/AWVUp12XPpU
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!


dk
Andy Evans
2021-01-12 23:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
dk
I'm speechless......
dk
2021-01-13 01:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by dk
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
dk
I'm speechless......
You can always write an essay en lieu de parler! ;-)

Now we have hard evidence Cage was a real
composer! ;-)

dk
dk
2021-01-14 03:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Evans
Post by dk
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
I'm speechless......
Like this better?


dk
Andy Evans
2021-01-14 09:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Like this better?
http://youtu.be/ShH-Td3ZiKs
dk
Sounds like something Debussy would improvise to put Chou-Chou to sleep.
number_six
2021-01-14 20:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by dk
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
http://youtu.be/0vzOWzxQDyA
There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
http://youtu.be/AWVUp12XPpU
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
dk
I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...
dk
2021-01-14 23:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by number_six
Post by dk
Post by dk
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
http://youtu.be/0vzOWzxQDyA
There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
http://youtu.be/AWVUp12XPpU
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...
The pressure cooker would be a valuable addition to
any symphony orchestra!

dk
Owen
2021-01-18 16:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by number_six
Post by dk
Post by dk
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
http://youtu.be/0vzOWzxQDyA
There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
http://youtu.be/AWVUp12XPpU
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...
John Cage: More than just 4'33"
Post by dk
The pressure cooker would be a valuable addition to
any symphony orchestra!
In order to conform to strict HIP guidelines, the pressure cooker would
need to be one of those early models prone to violent explosions causing
personal injury.

-Owen
Frank Berger
2021-01-18 16:56:20 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 4:08:23 AM UTC+8,
Post by number_six
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 3:26:41 AM UTC+8, dk
On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 6:41:27 PM UTC+8, Alan
Post by Alan Dawes
Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to
"best mushroom stew
containing Amanita Phalloides"....
The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
http://youtu.be/0vzOWzxQDyA
There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
http://youtu.be/AWVUp12XPpU
Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
http://youtu.be/gXOIkT1-QWY
I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...
John Cage:  More than just 4'33"
The pressure cooker would be a valuable addition to
any symphony orchestra!
In order to conform to strict HIP guidelines, the pressure
cooker would need to be one of those early models prone to
violent explosions causing personal injury.
-Owen
That's pretty much a myth about pressure cookers, but the
imagery is so good it doesn't matter.
Chris from Lafayette
2021-01-18 20:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
In order to conform to strict HIP guidelines, the pressure
cooker would need to be one of those early models prone to
violent explosions causing personal injury.
-Owen
That's pretty much a myth about pressure cookers, but the
imagery is so good it doesn't matter.
Except for the fact that such an explosion actually occurred in our family when I was a kid in the 50's. There we were all sitting at the dinner table (a quaint practice which was typical of those days), when, POW! All this meat starts flying all over the place! Just by chance, no one was hurt at all, but it took my parents what seemed the rest of the night to clean up the mess!

I've been tempted to get one of those new-fangled "do everything" pressure cookers "as seen on TV", but Ms. CfL won't hear of it. Maybe she's right, considering where things are made these days! ;-)
Frank Berger
2021-01-18 20:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Frank Berger
Post by Owen
In order to conform to strict HIP guidelines, the pressure
cooker would need to be one of those early models prone to
violent explosions causing personal injury.
-Owen
That's pretty much a myth about pressure cookers, but the
imagery is so good it doesn't matter.
Except for the fact that such an explosion actually occurred in our family when I was a kid in the 50's. There we were all sitting at the dinner table (a quaint practice which was typical of those days), when, POW! All this meat starts flying all over the place! Just by chance, no one was hurt at all, but it took my parents what seemed the rest of the night to clean up the mess!
I've been tempted to get one of those new-fangled "do everything" pressure cookers "as seen on TV", but Ms. CfL won't hear of it. Maybe she's right, considering where things are made these days! ;-)
Sure you could get burned to death by the contents, but it's
not like the pot itself blows apart. Unless there's shrapnel
it's not an explosion.
Andy Evans
2021-01-19 11:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Berger
Sure you could get burned to death by the contents, but it's
not like the pot itself blows apart. Unless there's shrapnel
it's not an explosion.
There was a very good English actor called John Shrapnel. Curious name.

Don't know any actors called Pressure-Cooker, but there is George Cukor....
JohnGavin
2021-01-11 18:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Herman
There is this delightful story about Ravel running into a man who
proudly told him he had a copy of the Bolero recording on a bunch
of 78s.
He insisted on playing them to Ravel, who could not fathom why
anyone would want to have these records.
Imagine this guy changing the records as the crescendo kept building in his mind.
The Bolero is a novelty piece composed so that Ida Rubinstein could
perform a sexy dance (she was not a very good dancer, but she had a
lot of money), and the orchestra could stun the audience with its power.
In Ravel's mind this only worked in live.
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
dk
Ravel was a genius, and Celi is fantastic - just my 2 cents.
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-01-11 22:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Herman
There is this delightful story about Ravel running into a man who
proudly told him he had a copy of the Bolero recording on a bunch
of 78s.
He insisted on playing them to Ravel, who could not fathom why
anyone would want to have these records.
Imagine this guy changing the records as the crescendo kept building in his mind.
The Bolero is a novelty piece composed so that Ida Rubinstein could
perform a sexy dance (she was not a very good dancer, but she had a
lot of money), and the orchestra could stun the audience with its power.
In Ravel's mind this only worked in live.
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
dk
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.

Ray Hall, Taree
Ricardo Jimenez
2021-01-12 01:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by dk
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
dk
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
Ray Hall, Taree
It might serve as a test to prove somebody is a truely great pianist.
Anybody who could give a solo performance that I wouldn't turn off by
the third repetition of the theme would be somebody really special.
dk
2021-01-12 01:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by dk
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
dk
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
Ray Hall, Taree
It might serve as a test to prove somebody is a truly great pianist.
Anybody who could give a solo performance that I wouldn't turn off by
the third repetition of the theme would be somebody really special.
Bolero requires V8 engines with 4 valves per cylinder:



dk
MELMOTH
2021-01-12 07:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
http://youtu.be/T2zZPsgpJhw
Absolute nonsense...
Herman
2021-01-12 07:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
Ray Hall, Taree
Obviously Ravel did not imply the music wasn't good.

What he meant was it was a show piece, to be heard rarely, in the concert hall.
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-01-12 08:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Herman
Post by ***@gmail.com
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
Ray Hall, Taree
Obviously Ravel did not imply the music wasn't good.
What he meant was it was a show piece, to be heard rarely, in the concert hall.
I know that. Similar to lots of pieces that are better played sparingly. I also am aware that Ravel was probably very tongue-in-cheek about his statement.

Ray Hall, Taree
dk
2021-01-12 19:22:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
Obviously Ravel did not imply the music wasn't good. What he
meant was it was a show piece, to be heard rarely, in the concert hall.
So we are not allowed to hear the work on YT on our computers?

My, my....

dk
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-15 01:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
The best Bolero I know is this one:



Andrew Clarke
Canberra
KimDenmark
2021-01-11 15:28:44 UTC
Permalink
dk and KimDenmark actually agrees! Cheers, Dan
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-15 09:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Is Ravel's Bolero a bolero?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
dk
2021-01-18 20:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Is Ravel's Bolero a bolero?
It depends on one's perspective.
Jaune Tom called it a "bowl e-raw".

dk
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-19 12:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by dk
Post by Andrew Clarke
Is Ravel's Bolero a bolero?
It depends on one's perspective.
Jaune Tom called it a "bowl e-raw".
It's also a question of whether it's a Spanish bolero or a Cuban bolero, apparently. Ravel himself originally called it a Habanera.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
gggg gggg
2021-01-16 23:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?
number_six
2021-01-17 22:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?
I have not seen that, but the best (by far) cinematic use of Bolero I have seen is Zbigniew Rybczynski's extraordinary STAIRWAY TO LENIN.

Part of a longer film THE ORCHESTRA. Bozetto's ALLEGRO NON TROPPO comees in second.
Andrew Clarke
2021-01-19 12:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by number_six
Post by gggg gggg
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?
I have not seen that, but the best (by far) cinematic use of Bolero I have seen is Zbigniew Rybczynski's extraordinary STAIRWAY TO LENIN.
Part of a longer film THE ORCHESTRA. Bozetto's ALLEGRO NON TROPPO comees in second.
The Bozetto Bolero is, frankly, terrifying. But then the whole of Allegro non troppo is a bit scary, despite the humour.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
number_six
2021-01-20 19:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by number_six
Post by gggg gggg
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?
I have not seen that, but the best (by far) cinematic use of Bolero I have seen is Zbigniew Rybczynski's extraordinary STAIRWAY TO LENIN.
Part of a longer film THE ORCHESTRA. Bozetto's ALLEGRO NON TROPPO comees in second.
The Bozetto Bolero is, frankly, terrifying. But then the whole of Allegro non troppo is a bit scary, despite the humour.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Rybczynski is scary as well, albeit in a very different way...but, like Bozetto, using the cumulative power of Ravel's music to underscore his visual narrative.



Reinhold Gliere
2021-01-18 17:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by gggg gggg
Post by ***@gmail.com
Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.
Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?
He made it because I have it, and must watch it again. It's on a DVD, with 'In Search of Cezanne'. Two Films by Allan Miller (FRF 912693D).
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