Arkiv CD listings

[Al Eisner]

Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it is probably
best asked again under its own subject line: given an Arkiv page
describing a particular release available from them as a CD, is there
a way to tell whether their offering is an original CD or, instead,
their own CD-R copy? The case in point did not say "on demand", and
gave a delivery estimate of 4-5 days. However, the issue was one I think
is out-of-print. Thanks.

[M&S Frost]

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it
is probably
best asked again under its own subject line: given an Arkiv
page
describing a particular release available from them as a CD,
is there
a way to tell whether their offering is an original CD or,
instead,
their own CD-R copy? The case in point did not say "on
demand", and
gave a delivery estimate of 4-5 days. However, the issue was
one I think
is out-of-print. Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the
ARKIVCD link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up
from the main menu. There seems to be no indication that is
is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of
ARKIVCD sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R
is inferior in some way to a CD. I've always felt that they
are effectively the same. There are a lot of anecdotal
reports out there warning about limited longevity of CD-Rs.
I seem to recall a Library of Congress study that
estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored. I
checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at
found them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not
hesitate for a second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do
think they should clearly indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume all the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon, sells "new" stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never bought a CD that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up the jewel case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a regular seller of new material?

MIFrost

[MiNe109]

Post by M&S Frost

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it is
probably best asked again under its own subject line: given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The case in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate of 4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from the main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library of Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon, sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again, manufactured by
ArkivMusic, under license from the original record labels." I would
presume them capable of printing a professional label and booklet. The
Wikipedia page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.

Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos will sell a
CD-R of progams available for download but doesn't duplicate the
original print content.

[M&S Frost]

Post by MiNe109

Post by M&S Frost

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it is
probably best asked again under its own subject line: given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The case in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate of 4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from the main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library of Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon, sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again, manufactured by
ArkivMusic, under license from the original record labels." I would
presume them capable of printing a professional label and booklet. The
Wikipedia page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos will sell a
CD-R of progams available for download but doesn't duplicate the
original print content.

I had no idea that's what that means. Years ago, BMG Music Club used to put out discs on their own label. I think Music Heritage Society did too. I bought several. Those are CD-R copies? You can't tell from listening. I never suspected.

MIFrost

[MiNe109]

Post by M&S Frost

Post by MiNe109

Post by M&S Frost

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it
given an Arkiv page describing a particular release available
from them as a CD, is there a way to tell whether their
offering is an original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy?
The case in point did not say "on demand", and gave a
delivery estimate of 4-5 days. However, the issue was one I
think is out-of-print. Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the
ARKIVCD link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from
the main menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a
CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of
ARKIVCD sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is
inferior in some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are
effectively the same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out
there warning about limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to
recall a Library of Congress study that estimated CD-Rs could
last 100 years if properly stored. I checked some of my 10-15
year old music CD-Rs tonight at found them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not hesitate
for a second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should
clearly indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume
all the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon,
sells "new" stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've
never bought a CD that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean
you open up the jewel case and inside it says CD-R? And you get
this from a regular seller of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again, manufactured
by ArkivMusic, under license from the original record labels." I
would presume them capable of printing a professional label and
booklet. The Wikipedia page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos will sell
a CD-R of progams available for download but doesn't duplicate the
original print content.

I had no idea that's what that means.

No booklet, "white label" CD-R. I assume there'd be something printed on
the disc, but I don't know.

Post by M&S Frost
Years ago, BMG Music Club used to put out discs on their own label. I
think Music Heritage Society did too. I bought several. Those are CD-R
copies? You can't tell from listening. I never suspected.

No, those were just manufactured by the clubs just like any other CD.
The CD label and booklets differed. Sometimes MHS was required to
duplicate the original booklets and sometimes were required to use
black-and-white.

[Frank Berger]

Post by MiNe109

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:57:38 PM UTC-5, Frank
Berger

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but
it is
given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available
from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The case
in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate of
4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the
ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from the
main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part
of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is
inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are
effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there
warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library of
Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if
properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight
at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not
hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should
clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I
assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon,
sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never
bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up
the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a
regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again,
manufactured by ArkivMusic, under license from the original
record labels." I would presume them capable of printing a
professional label and booklet. The Wikipedia page says the
ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos
will sell a CD-R of progams available for download but
doesn't duplicate the original print content.

To clarify. ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other vendor
and also presses, under license, certain out of print
releases on CD-R. This is not a question. Al's question
had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the difference,
assuming one cares. There is a separate link to their
pressed CD-Rs. But those CD-Rs are findable under the
general listing and not indicated there as CD-R. You could
check every CD you find under the the ARKIVCD (the burned
CD-Rs) link, but that would be a pain. They really should
indicate for the all listings which are in-print CDs and
which are their burned CD-R. Personally I don't really
care. I think a CD-R is a near-perfect substitute for a CD.
But others care, or seem to.

[Steven de Mena]

To clarify. ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other vendor
and also presses, under license, certain out of print
releases on CD-R. This is not a question. Al's question
had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the difference,
assuming one cares. There is a separate link to their
pressed CD-Rs. But those CD-Rs are findable under the
general listing and not indicated there as CD-R. You could
check every CD you find under the the ARKIVCD (the burned
CD-Rs) link, but that would be a pain. They really should
indicate for the all listings which are in-print CDs and
which are their burned CD-R. Personally I don't really
care. I think a CD-R is a near-perfect substitute for a CD.
But others care, or seem to.

The ArkicCD CD-R printed booklets are not as sharp (clear) as the originals, they seem to be at a lower DPI. Expect resale value to be less too.

Sony Classical in the US has been selling CD-Rs for many new titles for a couple of years now. Mostly single CD titles. Example: Bruckner 7th with Alan Gilbert purchased directly from Amazon US.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Steven de Mena

To clarify. ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other vendor
and also presses, under license, certain out of print
releases on CD-R. This is not a question. Al's question
had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the difference,
assuming one cares. There is a separate link to their
pressed CD-Rs. But those CD-Rs are findable under the
general listing and not indicated there as CD-R. You could
check every CD you find under the the ARKIVCD (the burned
CD-Rs) link, but that would be a pain. They really should
indicate for the all listings which are in-print CDs and
which are their burned CD-R. Personally I don't really
care. I think a CD-R is a near-perfect substitute for a CD.
But others care, or seem to.

The ArkicCD CD-R printed booklets are not as sharp (clear) as the originals, they seem to be at a lower DPI. Expect resale value to be less too.

Sure, but by definition, if there is an ARKIVCD available
there is no CD available, except for the used market. When
the choice is between an ARKIV CD-R and a used CD, I go for
the used CD for the reasons you outline, but of I can't find
a used CD of something I want I have no hesitation to by a CD-R.

Post by Steven de Mena
Sony Classical in the US has been selling CD-Rs for many new titles for a couple of years now. Mostly single CD titles. Example: Bruckner 7th with Alan Gilbert purchased directly from Amazon US.

[Al Eisner]

Post by MiNe109

Post by M&S Frost

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it is
probably best asked again under its own subject line: given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The case in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate of 4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from the main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library of Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon, sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again, manufactured by
ArkivMusic, under license from the original record labels." I would presume
them capable of printing a professional label and booklet. The Wikipedia
page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos will sell a CD-R
of progams available for download but doesn't duplicate the original print
content.

To clarify. ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other vendor and also presses,
under license, certain out of print releases on CD-R. This is not a
question. Al's question had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the
difference, assuming one cares. There is a separate link to their pressed
CD-Rs. But those CD-Rs are findable under the general listing and not
indicated there as CD-R. You could check every CD you find under the the
ARKIVCD (the burned CD-Rs) link, but that would be a pain. They really
should indicate for the all listings which are in-print CDs and which are
their burned CD-R. Personally I don't really care. I think a CD-R is a
near-perfect substitute for a CD. But others care, or seem to.

Frank is correct about what I was asking, except I'm not sure whether
I care. I'm not averse to buying a CD-R (although in years-past on rmcr
there was some disputation as to their quality), but I do think they
should tell us on their listing page. And I would (perhaos naively)
expect one to cost less than a high-priced new CD. I suppose it's
possible for a particular issue to be so popular that a law of supply
and demand is operating, but CD retailers do not typically do such
fine tuning. Anyway, I sent the question to Arkiv; I suspect for the
particular issue that CD-R is highly likely.

I haven't yet made a decision about buying it as a CD-R, just
collecting information, including listening to compressed excerpts.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by MiNe109

Post by M&S Frost

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it is
probably best asked again under its own subject line: given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The case in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate of 4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from the main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library of Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they should clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com? I assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including Amazon, sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open up the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again, manufactured by
ArkivMusic, under license from the original record labels." I would
presume them capable of printing a professional label and booklet. The
Wikipedia page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program. Chandos will sell a CD-R
of progams available for download but doesn't duplicate the original print
content.

To clarify. ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other vendor and also
presses, under license, certain out of print releases on CD-R. This is not
a question. Al's question had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the
difference, assuming one cares. There is a separate link to their pressed
CD-Rs. But those CD-Rs are findable under the general listing and not
indicated there as CD-R. You could check every CD you find under the the
ARKIVCD (the burned CD-Rs) link, but that would be a pain. They really
should indicate for the all listings which are in-print CDs and which are
their burned CD-R. Personally I don't really care. I think a CD-R is a
near-perfect substitute for a CD. But others care, or seem to.

Frank is correct about what I was asking, except I'm not sure whether
I care. I'm not averse to buying a CD-R (although in years-past on rmcr
there was some disputation as to their quality), but I do think they
should tell us on their listing page. And I would (perhaos naively)
expect one to cost less than a high-priced new CD. I suppose it's
possible for a particular issue to be so popular that a law of supply
and demand is operating, but CD retailers do not typically do such
fine tuning. Anyway, I sent the question to Arkiv; I suspect for the
particular issue that CD-R is highly likely.
I haven't yet made a decision about buying it as a CD-R, just collecting
information, including listening to compressed excerpts.

Response from Arkiv: the disk (Fou Ts'ong Chopin) is manufactured
by them, so as I suspected. Interesting comments in this thread.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by MiNe109

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:57:38 PM UTC-5,
Frank Berger

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread,
but it is
given an
Arkiv page describing a particular release available
from them as
a CD, is there a way to tell whether their offering
is an
original CD or, instead, their own CD-R copy? The
case in point
did not say "on demand", and gave a delivery estimate
of 4-5
days. However, the issue was one I think is
out-of-print.
Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from
the ARKIVCD
link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up from
the main
menu. There seems to be no indication that is is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the
part of ARKIVCD
sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R is
inferior in
some way to a CD. I've always felt that they are
effectively the
same. There are a lot of anecdotal reports out there
warning about
limited longevity of CD-Rs. I seem to recall a Library
of Congress
study that estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if
properly stored.
I checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs
tonight at found
them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not
hesitate for a
second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do think they
should clearly
indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Are we talking here about the site www.arkivmusic.com?
I assume all
the CDs they, or any legitimate seller, including
Amazon, sells "new"
stuff that's really new, not burned copies. I've never
bought a CD
that turned out to be a burned copy. You mean you open
up the jewel
case and inside it says CD-R? And you get this from a
regular seller
of new material?

The website says, "[t]hese discs are available again,
manufactured by ArkivMusic, under license from the
original record labels." I would presume them capable of
printing a professional label and booklet. The Wikipedia
page says the ArkivCD reissues are CD-Rs.
Presto has a similar "Presto CD" reissue program.
Chandos will sell a CD-R of progams available for
download but doesn't duplicate the original print content.

To clarify.  ARKIVMUSIC sells new CDs like any other
vendor and also presses, under license, certain out of
print releases on CD-R.  This is not a question.  Al's
question had to do, I think, with knowing how to tell the
difference, assuming one cares.  There is a separate link
to their pressed CD-Rs.  But those CD-Rs are findable
under the general listing and not indicated there as
CD-R.  You could check every CD you find under the the
ARKIVCD (the burned CD-Rs) link, but that would be a
pain.  They really should indicate for the all listings
which are in-print CDs and which are their burned CD-R.
Personally I don't really care.  I think a CD-R is a
near-perfect substitute for a CD.  But others care, or
seem to.

Frank is correct about what I was asking, except I'm not
sure whether
I care.  I'm not averse to buying a CD-R (although in
years-past on rmcr
there was some disputation as to their quality), but I do
think they
should tell us on their listing page.  And I would
(perhaos naively)
expect one to cost less than a high-priced new CD.  I
suppose it's
possible for a particular issue to be so popular that a
law of supply
and demand is operating, but CD retailers do not typically
do such
fine tuning.  Anyway, I sent the question to Arkiv; I
suspect for the
particular issue that CD-R is highly likely.
I haven't yet made a decision about buying it as a CD-R,
just collecting information, including listening to
compressed excerpts.

Response from Arkiv:  the disk (Fou Ts'ong Chopin) is
manufactured
by them, so as I suspected.  Interesting comments in this
thread.

I have the Sony Essentials Chopin Nocturnes CD from Fou on
order from ARKIV. They do not indicate that it is a CD-R.
The listing says it is in stock and the order says it is
backordered. I'm almost certain it is OOP from Sony, so
either it will be an ARKIV CD-R or it will not be
forthcoming. We'll see.

[Néstor Castiglione]

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it
is probably
best asked again under its own subject line: given an Arkiv
page
describing a particular release available from them as a CD,
is there
a way to tell whether their offering is an original CD or,
instead,
their own CD-R copy? The case in point did not say "on
demand", and
gave a delivery estimate of 4-5 days. However, the issue was
one I think
is out-of-print. Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the
ARKIVCD link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up
from the main menu. There seems to be no indication that is
is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of
ARKIVCD sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R
is inferior in some way to a CD. I've always felt that they
are effectively the same. There are a lot of anecdotal
reports out there warning about limited longevity of CD-Rs.
I seem to recall a Library of Congress study that
estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored. I
checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at
found them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not
hesitate for a second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do
think they should clearly indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Longevity depends on the brand of CD-R used and whether that brand is particularly sensitive to certain inks printed on the face of its discs. I have a number of CD-Rs made for me over the years by friends, as well as commercially issued CD-Rs from Haydn House, Lyrita, and Hänssler which either exhibit the telltale signs of disc rot or no longer play for me. My rough estimate is that at least 1/3 of the CD-Rs in my collection exhibit these problems. Because of that I have not purchased CD-Rs in nearly a decade. At least in my experience their long-term endurance is a gamble I'm not willing to pay for. Incidentally speaking, all of my discs are kept in a cool place away from sunlight and are treated with care.

Speaking of price, what grinds my gears about Arkiv reissues more than their being pressed on CD-Rs (an economically necessary decision) is that they charge full-price for them ($16.99 US). For CD-Rs and cheap photocopies of liner notes this is a bit much, especially when the discs are reissues of material that had originally been available at budget price. (This Arkiv CD of a VoxBox disc I recall seeing for sale at a local The Wherehouse for $3.99 back in my teen years is a typical example: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=77386.) Very often the Arkiv CD is priced significantly higher than for what the original factory-pressed CD goes for on the second-hand market.

Thank goodness for Presto and their wide digital offerings, most of them very affordably priced, with a quite a few available at bargain prices. Arkiv CDs were probably a great idea circa 2004, but are now looking well behind the times.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Néstor Castiglione

Post by Al Eisner
Here's a question I asked in the Fou Ts'ong thread, but it
is probably
best asked again under its own subject line: given an Arkiv
page
describing a particular release available from them as a CD,
is there
a way to tell whether their offering is an original CD or,
instead,
their own CD-R copy? The case in point did not say "on
demand", and
gave a delivery estimate of 4-5 days. However, the issue was
one I think
is out-of-print. Thanks.

Not a definitive answer, but.... I selected a CD from the
ARKIVCD link to their burned CD-Rs and then looked it up
from the main menu. There seems to be no indication that is
is a CD-R.
Having said that, whether that is misleading on the part of
ARKIVCD sort of depends on whether you believe that a CD-R
is inferior in some way to a CD. I've always felt that they
are effectively the same. There are a lot of anecdotal
reports out there warning about limited longevity of CD-Rs.
I seem to recall a Library of Congress study that
estimated CD-Rs could last 100 years if properly stored. I
checked some of my 10-15 year old music CD-Rs tonight at
found them all sounding fine.
If ARKIVCD had a CD-R of music I wanted, I would not
hesitate for a second to buy it. In fact, I have. I do
think they should clearly indicate it is a CD-R, however.

Longevity depends on the brand of CD-R used and whether that brand is particularly sensitive to certain inks printed on the face of its discs. I have a number of CD-Rs made for me over the years by friends, as well as commercially issued CD-Rs from Haydn House, Lyrita, and Hänssler which either exhibit the telltale signs of disc rot or no longer play for me. My rough estimate is that at least 1/3 of the CD-Rs in my collection exhibit these problems. Because of that I have not purchased CD-Rs in nearly a decade. At least in my experience their long-term endurance is a gamble I'm not willing to pay for. Incidentally speaking, all of my discs are kept in a cool place away from sunlight and are treated with care.
Speaking of price, what grinds my gears about Arkiv reissues more than their being pressed on CD-Rs (an economically necessary decision) is that they charge full-price for them ($16.99 US). For CD-Rs and cheap photocopies of liner notes this is a bit much, especially when the discs are reissues of material that had originally been available at budget price. (This Arkiv CD of a VoxBox disc I recall seeing for sale at a local The Wherehouse for $3.99 back in my teen years is a typical example: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=77386.) Very often the Arkiv CD is priced significantly higher than for what the original factory-pressed CD goes for on the second-hand market.
Thank goodness for Presto and their wide digital offerings, most of them very affordably priced, with a quite a few available at bargain prices. Arkiv CDs were probably a great idea circa 2004, but are now looking well behind the times.

I cannot disagree with your experience with CD-Rs, despite
it differing from my own. Moreover, if there was a
recording I wanted and it was available only on a CD-R that
might last only 5-10 years, I would likely buy it anyway.

As mentioned before, price is determined by supply AND
demand. On the demand side, although a particular ARKIVCD
may be inferior to a new OEM CD for the obvious reasons,
that CD is not available, is it? Inflation aside, when that
CD WAS available, the supply may have been great, deflating
the price. Now the supply of burned CDs is low, inflating
the price. By this I really mean the per CD cost of
manufacture is higher for the low volume CD-Rs that ARKIVCD
burns that it was for Sony or whoever, to print additional
CDs when the recording was in print.

You can't really compare the cost of a CD-R today to that of
a CD some years ago, at least not an ethical sense. The
situation is different and it what it is.

[Steven de Mena]

Post by Frank Berger
You can't really compare the cost of a CD-R today to that of
a CD some years ago, at least not an ethical sense. The
situation is different and it what it is.

CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Steven de Mena

Post by Frank Berger
You can't really compare the cost of a CD-R today to that of
a CD some years ago, at least not an ethical sense. The
situation is different and it what it is.

CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

Yes. I think I just said that.

[drh8h]

Post by Steven de Mena

Post by Frank Berger
You can't really compare the cost of a CD-R today to that of
a CD some years ago, at least not an ethical sense. The
situation is different and it what it is.

CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

I am only aware of one company that burns CD-Rs in real time. I regularly burn CD-Rs at 24x and have no problems. As for old CD-Rs, many of the problem children are those that have paper labels. If these are soaked off carefully and using a soft brush, 80-90% come back to life. Backing up is a good idea.

DH

[Mr. Mike]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 14:30:08 -0800 (PST), Steven de Mena

Post by Steven de Mena
CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

Huh? What are you talking about, "in real time"?

These are just ordinary CD-Rs, right, the same kind as the spindle of
Verbatims I have on a shelf near me?

You could burn a CD in one of two ways (maybe there are more):

You have all the files stored on a hard drive where they were ripped
from the original CD. Using an audio program, you could load in a .CUE
file containing information about all these files (which you would
have to construct) and reproduce the original ... or you could just
drop the files on to a blank CD and burn those, but then there might
be problems with the gaps between the tracks.

Some audio programs allow you to put a CD (like a music CD) in one
drive and a blank CD in another drive and then copy one to the other
directly, which would duplicate the original exactly.

Neither of these methods would take 60 or 70 or 80 minutes or whatever
to do, unless you were copying at a VERY slow speed. Heck, when I
create my own CDs, it takes less than 10 minutes. Theoretically, this
might cause problems with the finished result, but I've never
experienced any such problems.

Does Archiv claim to do them in "real time"?

[Steven de Mena]

Post by Mr. Mike
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 14:30:08 -0800 (PST), Steven de Mena

Post by Steven de Mena
CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

Huh? What are you talking about, "in real time"?
These are just ordinary CD-Rs, right, the same kind as the spindle of
Verbatims I have on a shelf near me?
You have all the files stored on a hard drive where they were ripped
from the original CD. Using an audio program, you could load in a .CUE
file containing information about all these files (which you would
have to construct) and reproduce the original ... or you could just
drop the files on to a blank CD and burn those, but then there might
be problems with the gaps between the tracks.
Some audio programs allow you to put a CD (like a music CD) in one
drive and a blank CD in another drive and then copy one to the other
directly, which would duplicate the original exactly.
Neither of these methods would take 60 or 70 or 80 minutes or whatever
to do, unless you were copying at a VERY slow speed. Heck, when I
create my own CDs, it takes less than 10 minutes. Theoretically, this
might cause problems with the finished result, but I've never
experienced any such problems.
Does Archiv claim to do them in "real time"?

No. Although I had burned a 1,000 or more, it's probably been 10 years or more since I had burned them and had forgot about the speed settings. That doesn't change my statement, that they cost more as they take longer to produce.

[Reinhold Gliere]

Post by Steven de Mena

Post by Mr. Mike
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 14:30:08 -0800 (PST), Steven de Mena

Post by Steven de Mena
CD-Rs have to be burned in real time, so each one takes ~70 minutes to burn. This would increase the cost.

Huh? What are you talking about, "in real time"?
These are just ordinary CD-Rs, right, the same kind as the spindle of
Verbatims I have on a shelf near me?
You have all the files stored on a hard drive where they were ripped
from the original CD. Using an audio program, you could load in a .CUE
file containing information about all these files (which you would
have to construct) and reproduce the original ... or you could just
drop the files on to a blank CD and burn those, but then there might
be problems with the gaps between the tracks.
Some audio programs allow you to put a CD (like a music CD) in one
drive and a blank CD in another drive and then copy one to the other
directly, which would duplicate the original exactly.
Neither of these methods would take 60 or 70 or 80 minutes or whatever
to do, unless you were copying at a VERY slow speed. Heck, when I
create my own CDs, it takes less than 10 minutes. Theoretically, this
might cause problems with the finished result, but I've never
experienced any such problems.
Does Archiv claim to do them in "real time"?

No. Although I had burned a 1,000 or more, it's probably been 10 years or more since I had burned them and had forgot about the speed settings. That doesn't change my statement, that they cost more as they take longer to produce.

I think the cost to Arkiv is greater when they have to make a CD-R than when they would have been able to purchase the original pressed CD from its manufacturer. So it follows that they charge more to come out 'even'.