Discussion:
R.C. Marsh's book on the CO
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ansermetniac
2004-10-20 17:51:42 UTC
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6931966398&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

I won this. Am I going to enjoy it?

Abbedd
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___________________________________________________
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Dontaitchicago
2004-10-21 00:44:13 UTC
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Subject: R.C. Marsh's book on the CO
Date: 10/20/2004 12:51 PM Central Standard Time
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6931966398&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
I won this. Am I going to enjoy it?
Abbedd
You won't know until you've read it of course (since it's now yours). Marsh
wrote well, and he provides history. Your reaction might depend upon what you
think of Artur Rodzinski and George Szell as interpreters. As you know, they
conducted the orchestra from the late 1930s until Szell's death in 1970 with
the brief exception of the Leinsdorf interlude. Marsh adored, even worshipped
Rodzinski and Szell (he talked endlessly about being "friends" with them and
what they had told him personally: I know that first-hand) and totally embraced
their straightforward interpretive style. Marsh was a disciple of B.H. Haggin
(who turned against him in print) and had contempt and ridicule for
Furtwangler, Mengelberg, and so on, plus Horowitz and others, whose
interpretive style differed from Marsh's 1950s concepts of undeviating
faithfulness to every mark in the score and nothing, never, anything ever else.
Marsh believed that that was the only truth. There are good pictures in the
book though. So you probably got a fun read. Enjoy it.

Don Tait
ansermetniac
2004-10-21 01:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by ansermetniac
Subject: R.C. Marsh's book on the CO
Date: 10/20/2004 12:51 PM Central Standard Time
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6931966398&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
I won this. Am I going to enjoy it?
Abbedd
You won't know until you've read it of course (since it's now yours). Marsh
wrote well, and he provides history. Your reaction might depend upon what you
think of Artur Rodzinski and George Szell as interpreters. As you know, they
conducted the orchestra from the late 1930s until Szell's death in 1970 with
the brief exception of the Leinsdorf interlude. Marsh adored, even worshipped
Rodzinski and Szell (he talked endlessly about being "friends" with them and
what they had told him personally: I know that first-hand) and totally embraced
their straightforward interpretive style. Marsh was a disciple of B.H. Haggin
(who turned against him in print) and had contempt and ridicule for
Furtwangler, Mengelberg, and so on, plus Horowitz and others, whose
interpretive style differed from Marsh's 1950s concepts of undeviating
faithfulness to every mark in the score and nothing, never, anything ever else.
Marsh believed that that was the only truth. There are good pictures in the
book though. So you probably got a fun read. Enjoy it.
Don Tait
Don

Thanks. I have Marsh's Toscanini book which is a handy reference if
you ignore the opinions. Although, in High Fidelity he never gave
Ansermet anything but a good review.

Abbedd
________________

Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week

http://members.aol.com/abbedd/abbedd

Boycott Inglotted CDS
http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm

G.P.O.C.
http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/GPOC.htm

"Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
"If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
___________________________________________________
"I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
FDR
Tom Deacon
2004-10-21 11:31:59 UTC
Permalink
On 10/20/04 8:44 PM, in article
Post by ansermetniac
Subject: R.C. Marsh's book on the CO
Date: 10/20/2004 12:51 PM Central Standard Time
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6931966398&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
I won this. Am I going to enjoy it?
Abbedd
You won't know until you've read it of course (since it's now yours). Marsh
wrote well, and he provides history. Your reaction might depend upon what you
think of Artur Rodzinski and George Szell as interpreters. As you know, they
conducted the orchestra from the late 1930s until Szell's death in 1970 with
the brief exception of the Leinsdorf interlude. Marsh adored, even worshipped
Rodzinski and Szell (he talked endlessly about being "friends" with them and
what they had told him personally: I know that first-hand) and totally embraced
their straightforward interpretive style. Marsh was a disciple of B.H. Haggin
(who turned against him in print) and had contempt and ridicule for
Furtwangler, Mengelberg, and so on, plus Horowitz and others, whose
interpretive style differed from Marsh's 1950s concepts of undeviating
faithfulness to every mark in the score and nothing, never, anything ever else.
Marsh believed that that was the only truth. There are good pictures in the
book though. So you probably got a fun read. Enjoy it.
What was even more entertaining than his thoughts on Horowitz or
Furtwangler, was his stories about the dreaded Claudia.

Lots of fun was Robert C. Marsh.

TD
Curtis Croulet
2004-10-21 22:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Marsh...had contempt and ridicule for Furtwangler...
You must have Marsh confused with someone else. He thought highly of Furt's
Beethoven Fifth, for example. I have a personal letter from him wherein he
recommends WF's 1937 recording. He also enthusiastically reviewed Furt's
1947 Fifth (scarcely a "literalist" performance) when it appeared on DGG in
the early 1960s, and elsewhere he specifically recommended Klemp's 1955 mono
recording. RCM also liked Bruno Walter, and his Jan 1964 Walter discography
is one of the classic articles from the late, lamented High Fidelity. He
roundly criticized Szell's stereo coupling of Mozart's Jupiter and
Beethoven's Fifth for being too fast in both works. Around 1973 he took on
an earlier review by Harris Goldsmith, who had unfavorably compared Solti's
then-new 1972 Beethoven Ninth to Toscanini's. Marsh thought Toscanini
showed its age badly, and he found Solti and Giulini "worthy to stand beside
Toscanini on any shelf."
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
Dontaitchicago
2004-10-22 00:53:24 UTC
Permalink
2
ubject: Re: R.C. Marsh's book on the CO
Date: 10/21/2004 5:21 PM Central Standard Time
Marsh...had contempt and ridicule for Furtwangler...
You must have Marsh confused with someone else. He thought highly of Furt's
Beethoven Fifth, for example. I have a personal letter from him wherein he
recommends WF's 1937 recording. He also enthusiastically reviewed Furt's
1947 Fifth (scarcely a "literalist" performance) when it appeared on DGG in
the early 1960s, and elsewhere he specifically recommended Klemp's 1955 mono
recording. RCM also liked Bruno Walter, and his Jan 1964 Walter discography
is one of the classic articles from the late, lamented High Fidelity. He
roundly criticized Szell's stereo coupling of Mozart's Jupiter and
Beethoven's Fifth for being too fast in both works. Around 1973 he took on
an earlier review by Harris Goldsmith, who had unfavorably compared Solti's
then-new 1972 Beethoven Ninth to Toscanini's. Marsh thought Toscanini
showed its age badly, and he found Solti and Giulini "worthy to stand beside
Toscanini on any shelf."
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
Thanks for your comments. I am grateful, and your ideas are
thought-provoking. I have enjoyed reading them, and in many ways you're
correct. Much more to come. I knew Robert Marsh. What I quoted by him came from
his '50s book about Toscanini - "Herr Bratwurst" about Schubert 9, a German who
didn't conduct Schubert 9 like Toscanini. Aka Furtwangler. He told me so.
Sorry. For later times, I remember a Marsh review in the Sun-Times of a
Giulini/CSO Brahms 1st. It was somewhat slow, and had major tempo variations.
Marsh wrote that the tempi and variations would have offended him earlier on
principle because they differed from Toscanini, Szell, and what is in the
score, which he believed was gospel; and that he had come to believe that the
strictures of what is on the page may not totally, completely, utterly tell
everyone everything as he had previously believed. In other words, he liked
Giulini's Brahms 1.

I must go. Shall send more soon.

Don Tait
Curtis Croulet
2004-10-22 05:55:01 UTC
Permalink
I've started another thread in response to this. I look forward to your
comments. I know Marsh only from his HF reviews, which may not give a full
perspective on his views and personality.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
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