Discussion:
Strauss Alpensinfonie?
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dk
2021-03-30 06:51:36 UTC
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Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?

TIA

dk
MELMOTH
2021-03-30 09:27:36 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
Integrale *Kempe*...
*Boehm* anthology...

Of course...

NB : I do NOT live in Paris, fortunately !...My castle is in Brittany,
in the middle of the Armorique Park...
Alex Brown
2021-03-30 12:46:24 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.

But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).

Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.

Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
--
- Alex Brown
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-30 13:48:05 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
I agree. It's live in 1983 with Sabine Meyer. It's a profound recording.

YM
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-03-30 18:08:58 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.
Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
--
- Alex Brown
I fully agree about Wit/Staatskapelle Weimar. Tremendous recording,

Ray Hall, Taree
Bob Harper
2021-03-31 02:40:06 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.
Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
--
- Alex Brown
I fully agree about Wit/Staatskapelle Weimar. Tremendous recording,
Ray Hall, Taree
Wit is an excellent conductor; I wonder whether his huge presence on
Naxos hasn't made him less appreciated than if he were on one of the
'major' labels?

Bob Harper
raymond....@gmail.com
2021-03-31 04:11:46 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.
Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
--
- Alex Brown
I fully agree about Wit/Staatskapelle Weimar. Tremendous recording,
Ray Hall, Taree
Wit is an excellent conductor; I wonder whether his huge presence on
Naxos hasn't made him less appreciated than if he were on one of the
'major' labels?
Bob Harper
Agree fully. I suspect his recorded repertoire of the major Polish composers of the 20th century, of which there are a few, has allowed him to indulge with Naxos, whereas other major labels not so much, although he has recorded for EMI. Plus of course his long association with the Polish RSO and then the Warsaw PO, made the fit.
Wit has conducted worldwide and he has also latterly been involved with many regional orchestras in Spain.

Ray Hall, Taree
Chris from Lafayette
2021-03-31 18:40:47 UTC
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Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it".
- Alex Brown
I fully agree about Wit/Staatskapelle Weimar. Tremendous recording,
Ray Hall, Taree
Wit is an excellent conductor; I wonder whether his huge presence on
Naxos hasn't made him less appreciated than if he were on one of the
'major' labels?
Bob Harper
Good point, Bob. Wit has some magnificent recordings of other repertoire too, including the Brahms German Requiem, the Brahms shorter choral works with orchestra, the Dvorak Requiem, and the Mahler Eighth, not to mention the Szymanowski Symphonies. All of these except for the Brahms shorter choral works were (are?) available on blu-ray audio - I don't know what their availability on that format is right now (I see only the Dvorak currently listed on Amazon), but they certainly sound wonderful in hi-rez MCh. (I'm sorry that Naxos got cold feet about issuing their recordings in MCh - a practice which evidently didn't fit their cost/benefit analysis after awhile.)

I was fortunate enough to see Wit and his merry band from Warsaw in concert when they came to San Francisco a few years ago (Beethoven Emperor with Avdeeva - merely OK - and the Dvorak Eighth, with Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever" as an encore, complete with some of the orchestra players waving little American flags at the end - funny!). And for icing on the cake, the orchestra even had some babes in it! So there was a great conductor, an enthusiastic and accomplished orchestra, and babes - what more could you want?
Bob Harper
2021-03-31 21:01:40 UTC
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Post by Chris from Lafayette
Post by Bob Harper
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Alex Brown
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it".
- Alex Brown
I fully agree about Wit/Staatskapelle Weimar. Tremendous recording,
Ray Hall, Taree
Wit is an excellent conductor; I wonder whether his huge presence on
Naxos hasn't made him less appreciated than if he were on one of the
'major' labels?
Bob Harper
Good point, Bob. Wit has some magnificent recordings of other repertoire too, including the Brahms German Requiem, the Brahms shorter choral works with orchestra, the Dvorak Requiem, and the Mahler Eighth, not to mention the Szymanowski Symphonies. All of these except for the Brahms shorter choral works were (are?) available on blu-ray audio - I don't know what their availability on that format is right now (I see only the Dvorak currently listed on Amazon), but they certainly sound wonderful in hi-rez MCh. (I'm sorry that Naxos got cold feet about issuing their recordings in MCh - a practice which evidently didn't fit their cost/benefit analysis after awhile.)
I was fortunate enough to see Wit and his merry band from Warsaw in concert when they came to San Francisco a few years ago (Beethoven Emperor with Avdeeva - merely OK - and the Dvorak Eighth, with Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever" as an encore, complete with some of the orchestra players waving little American flags at the end - funny!). And for icing on the cake, the orchestra even had some babes in it! So there was a great conductor, an enthusiastic and accomplished orchestra, and babes - what more could you want?
Sounds great, but given the tenor of the Lara St. John thread, I'd be
careful with the personnel comments, Chris :).

Bob Harper
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-03-30 19:43:16 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:46:30 AM UTC-5, Alex Brown wrote:
Kazimierz Kord with the
Post by Alex Brown
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
As direct as he is, he'd better be exciting. In my collection only Fried is faster, with Kord at 43:30 and Fried at 43:00. Meanwhile, the Asahina All-Japan performance is the longest I have at 57:47. I'm not a Celi-hugger, and don't think slow is any shortcut to magic, but Asahina works, and the rhythms are tight enough when necessary. I have the NDR and Osaka performances and neither really grabs me- the All-Japan performance is just better.
Alex Brown
2021-03-30 19:49:17 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
Kazimierz Kord with the
Post by Alex Brown
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
As direct as he is, he'd better be exciting. In my collection only Fried is faster, with Kord at 43:30 and Fried at 43:00. Meanwhile, the Asahina All-Japan performance is the longest I have at 57:47. I'm not a Celi-hugger, and don't think slow is any shortcut to magic, but Asahina works, and the rhythms are tight enough when necessary. I have the NDR and Osaka performances and neither really grabs me- the All-Japan performance is just better.
I do like that Asahina recording too, though it may be magisterial to a
fault.
--
- Alex Brown
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-03-31 01:44:20 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
Kazimierz Kord with the
Post by Alex Brown
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
As direct as he is, he'd better be exciting. In my collection only Fried is faster, with Kord at 43:30 and Fried at 43:00. Meanwhile, the Asahina All-Japan performance is the longest I have at 57:47. I'm not a Celi-hugger, and don't think slow is any shortcut to magic, but Asahina works, and the rhythms are tight enough when necessary. I have the NDR and Osaka performances and neither really grabs me- the All-Japan performance is just better.
Sorry, for the record, Fried is 40:23.
Alan Dawes
2021-03-31 10:13:24 UTC
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Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.
Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
I would suggest Frank Shipway with the Sao Paulo Sym. O. if you want a
performance in excellent surround sound with the players on the edge of
their seats. It was recorded in 2012 a couple of years before his death.
BIS-1950 SACD

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strauss-Alpensinfonie-Symphony-Shipway-BIS1950/dp/B008S87SYW

For comments see:

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Alpensinfonie-Symphony-Shipway-BIS1950/dp/B008S87SYW

Incidentally the "What is the BEST recording of Beethoven's 7th" thread
reminded me of an impressive Mahler 5th played by the RPO and conducted by
Frank Shipway:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-5-Gustav/dp/B000AAVCY8

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-5-Rpo-Shipway/dp/B0000264QY
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
dk
2021-03-31 10:35:21 UTC
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Post by Alan Dawes
Post by Alex Brown
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
Karajan does it for me (the Sony video is a rare official "live"
recording, in better sound than the infamous DGG early digital effort).
The bourgeois grandiosity of the piece suited him I think.
But if allergic to Karajan, and at the other end of the prestige scale,
Antoni Wit with the Staatskapelle Weimar on Naxos "get it". (In a
similar vein, Dave Hurwitz's recommendation, Kazimierz Kord with the
Warsaw PO on the Accord label, is exciting and direct).
Sonically, the best recording I've heard is Jansons/Bavarian RSO on BR
Klassik. But as an interpretation it's kind of sleepy.
Kempe/Dresden I find admirable more than exciting.
I would suggest Frank Shipway with the Sao Paulo Sym. O. if you want a
performance in excellent surround sound with the players on the edge of
their seats. It was recorded in 2012 a couple of years before his death.
BIS-1950 SACD
Thanks for the pointer. I will give it a try.

dk
dk
2021-03-31 10:36:49 UTC
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Post by Alan Dawes
Incidentally the "What is the BEST recording of Beethoven's 7th"
thread reminded me of an impressive Mahler 5th played by the
How does it compare with

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ufpicefa5e6017/AACWyvNr3uy0JMGqfAFcFo3Ua?dl=0

Also an RPO performance.

dk
Alan P Dawes
2021-04-01 11:31:02 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Alan Dawes
Incidentally the "What is the BEST recording of Beethoven's 7th"
thread reminded me of an impressive Mahler 5th played by the
How does it compare with
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ufpicefa5e6017/AACWyvNr3uy0JMGqfAFcFo3Ua?dl=0
Also an RPO performance.
Sorry Dan, I'm using a "non-standard" operating system (RISC OS) and just
get a blank screen with dropbox.

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Sol L. Siegel
2021-03-30 13:43:48 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
I have Kempe/Dresden in surround on DVD-A. But Kempe/Royal PO
is a better performance.

Also: Luisi, Dresden SK again. But getting the surround
version requires the proverbial second mortgage these days.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Ricardo Jimenez
2021-03-30 15:12:17 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
Excellent performance in surround sound and accompanying documentary
on the DVD "Kent Nagano Conducts Classical Masterpieces - Richard
Strauss - An Alpine Symphony Op. 64" from ArtHaus.
Andy Evans
2021-03-30 15:33:02 UTC
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I prefer Strauss with voices.
JohnGavin
2021-03-30 15:38:49 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I prefer Strauss with voices.
How does Reiner rank here?
Andy Evans
2021-03-30 15:41:59 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by Andy Evans
I prefer Strauss with voices.
How does Reiner rank here?
Not quite up with Barbara Hannigan, though friends said he had nice legs....
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 16:51:13 UTC
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Post by JohnGavin
Post by Andy Evans
I prefer Strauss with voices.
How does Reiner rank here?
Interestingly, Reiner never recorded Eine Alpsensinfonie.
Al Eisner
2021-03-31 01:28:49 UTC
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Post by Andy Evans
I prefer Strauss with voices.
Would live-audience noise do it for you?
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 15:31:48 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
MELMOTH, which performances and recordings sound
best in your audiophile castle on the Seine?
TIA
dk
One person's survey:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/strauss-s-alpine-symphony-which-recording-to-own

Emphasis on performance, but consideration for sound also.
Steve Emerson
2021-03-30 16:25:38 UTC
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Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
Asahina/All Japan SO 1991. An absolute winner; thank you MSWD. Karajan is fairly compatible with Strauss but still manages to cloy a bit, at least for me. There's more bite and exactitude to the Asahina than there is in Kempe. Etc.

SE.
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
2021-03-30 16:28:38 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
Asahina/All Japan SO 1991. An absolute winner; thank you MSWD. Karajan is fairly compatible with Strauss but still manages to cloy a bit, at least for me. There's more bite and exactitude to the Asahina than there is in Kempe. Etc.
SE.
I remember that this is the disc why Henry Fogel invited Asahina to his then Chicago Symphony in 1996 twice for Bruckner centennary. (I still personally perfer to Karajan 1983 with Sabine Meyer and on DVD).

YM
Frank Berger
2021-03-30 16:54:39 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
Asahina/All Japan SO 1991. An absolute winner; thank you MSWD. Karajan is fairly compatible with Strauss but still manages to cloy a bit, at least for me. There's more bite and exactitude to the Asahina than there is in Kempe. Etc.
SE.
Asahina also recorded it in 1990 with the NDR (on Ode label) and in 1964 with the Berlin Radio SO (on Weitblick) and in 1997 with the Osaka PO (Canyon Classics). He must have liked it.
Steve Emerson
2021-03-30 19:35:48 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by dk
Suggestions and recommendations much appreciated!
Asahina/All Japan SO 1991. An absolute winner; thank you MSWD. Karajan is fairly compatible with Strauss but still manages to cloy a bit, at least for me. There's more bite and exactitude to the Asahina than there is in Kempe. Etc.
SE.
Asahina also recorded it in 1990 with the NDR (on Ode label) and in 1964 with the Berlin Radio SO (on Weitblick) and in 1997 with the Osaka PO (Canyon Classics). He must have liked it.
Yes, Asahina must have liked it; but this is the pattern with Asahina--if there's one recording of a work, there are several or many -- and many of those are live. I've heard the Osaka PO recording on Canyon and found it less noteworthy than the All Japan.

SE.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-03-30 19:47:56 UTC
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Asahina also recorded it in 1990 with the NDR (on Ode label) and in 1964 with the Berlin Radio SO (on Weitblick) and in 1997 with the Osaka PO (Canyon Classics). He must have liked it.
Yes, Asahina must have liked it; but this is the pattern with Asahina--if there's one recording of a work, there are several or many -- and many of those are live. I've heard the Osaka PO recording on Canyon and found it less noteworthy than the All Japan.
This plagiarism must stop!

I love Asahina's Bruckner 5 from the readily-available Canyon cycle, which led me to chase down nearly every one of his other recorded performances. All were relative disappointments, with the TMSO recording the only one I kept (but it still isn't as good- more distended and episodic).

His recordings are very hit/miss for me.
Steve Emerson
2021-03-31 15:26:46 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Asahina also recorded it in 1990 with the NDR (on Ode label) and in 1964 with the Berlin Radio SO (on Weitblick) and in 1997 with the Osaka PO (Canyon Classics). He must have liked it.
Yes, Asahina must have liked it; but this is the pattern with Asahina--if there's one recording of a work, there are several or many -- and many of those are live. I've heard the Osaka PO recording on Canyon and found it less noteworthy than the All Japan.
This plagiarism must stop!
I love Asahina's Bruckner 5 from the readily-available Canyon cycle, which led me to chase down nearly every one of his other recorded performances. All were relative disappointments, with the TMSO recording the only one I kept (but it still isn't as good- more distended and episodic).
His recordings are very hit/miss for me.
I will seek that Bruckner 5, MSWD. "Readily available"? Maybe once... I have the #6 and #7 on hand here, haven't spent much time with those. Much to enjoy in his Beethoven, e.g., even if seldom/never quite the ideal in my mind (which, fortunately, is subject to change).

SE.
mswd...@gmail.com
2021-04-01 12:53:12 UTC
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Post by Steve Emerson
Post by ***@gmail.com
I love Asahina's Bruckner 5 from the readily-available Canyon cycle, which led me to chase down nearly every one of his other recorded performances. All were relative disappointments, with the TMSO recording the only one I kept (but it still isn't as good- more distended and episodic).
His recordings are very hit/miss for me.
I will seek that Bruckner 5, MSWD. "Readily available"? Maybe once... I have the #6 and #7 on hand here, haven't spent much time with those. Much to enjoy in his Beethoven, e.g., even if seldom/never quite the ideal in my mind (which, fortunately, is subject to change).
SE.
A lot of his material has been shared in Symphonhshare- join us!
I'm not sure by what arrangement my email seems very public in the group while other people are identified with names, but if you want to email me, I can give you a few helpful pointers, especially with regard to the Asahina Canyon Bruckner cycle. Unfortunately, I can't email you using the "email author" feature here. Greyed out.
Steve Emerson
2021-04-01 15:47:36 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Steve Emerson
Post by ***@gmail.com
I love Asahina's Bruckner 5 from the readily-available Canyon cycle, which led me to chase down nearly every one of his other recorded performances. All were relative disappointments, with the TMSO recording the only one I kept (but it still isn't as good- more distended and episodic).
His recordings are very hit/miss for me.
I will seek that Bruckner 5, MSWD. "Readily available"? Maybe once... I have the #6 and #7 on hand here, haven't spent much time with those. Much to enjoy in his Beethoven, e.g., even if seldom/never quite the ideal in my mind (which, fortunately, is subject to change).
SE.
A lot of his material has been shared in Symphonhshare- join us!
I'm not sure by what arrangement my email seems very public in the group while other people are identified with names, but if you want to email me, I can give you a few helpful pointers, especially with regard to the Asahina Canyon Bruckner cycle. Unfortunately, I can't email you using the "email author" feature here. Greyed out.
Many thanks, MSWD. I have been there for many years and actually located (again) the cycle in question -- somehow I'm repeatedly a klutz with searching the group. I am "Steve" on S-share, possibly with head of a harlequin Great Dane showing as avatar. BTW, the Bruckner 5 is every bit the knockout you claimed.

Best,
SE.
Ed Presson
2021-04-04 17:59:07 UTC
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I have listened to recommended recordings for five decades (and one
in-concert live performance),
and I still find it second-rate Strauss.

For me, the Karajan early digital recording (remastered) makes the best case
for it, followed by Wit.

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