Discussion:
Favorite Symphonie Fantastique
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m***@gmail.com
2017-08-08 10:16:45 UTC
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I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
g***@gmail.com
2017-08-08 10:24:03 UTC
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I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
This 2002 review article may be of interest:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/berliozsym.html
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-08 12:10:55 UTC
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I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/berliozsym.html
So many good choices!!!!!
Frank Berger
2017-08-08 14:40:50 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/berliozsym.html
So many good choices!!!!!
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.

A small thing - he refers to a 1931 Monteux recording, but
every other source says it was 1930.
JohnA
2017-08-08 15:07:53 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.
The 1968 version was just reissued in the New York Philharmonic Sony box.
Frank Berger
2017-08-08 15:35:06 UTC
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Post by JohnA
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.
The 1968 version was just reissued in the New York Philharmonic Sony box.
Unless they've confused the '63 and '68 recordings again.
However, one Amazon reiewer, confirms it is the '68 and that
the sound is dramatically improved from the Great
Performances release. That's good news, but I don't know if
I can splurge for the box. My wife would kill me and it's
too big to hide.
n***@gmail.com
2017-08-08 16:16:05 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnA
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.
The 1968 version was just reissued in the New York Philharmonic Sony box.
Unless they've confused the '63 and '68 recordings again.
However, one Amazon reiewer, confirms it is the '68 and that
the sound is dramatically improved from the Great
Performances release. That's good news, but I don't know if
I can splurge for the box. My wife would kill me and it's
too big to hide.
You needn't buy the big box to get the 1968 (Philharmonic Hall) recording.
This is it: ASIN: B00000DRZT

https://www.amazon.com/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-Fantastique-Performances/dp/B00000DRZT/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502207994&sr=1-2&keywords=bernstein+Symphonie+Fantastique

You are correct in your identifications (and I own all 3 CDs: Great Performances, Royal Edition and B. Century as well as the LP Columbia Masterworks MS 7278 plus the accompanying bonus record Berlioz Takes a Trip.
The timings on the MS 7278 jacket matches those of the Great Performances (Newsprint) release.
Frank Berger
2017-08-08 16:36:00 UTC
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Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnA
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.
The 1968 version was just reissued in the New York Philharmonic Sony box.
Unless they've confused the '63 and '68 recordings again.
However, one Amazon reiewer, confirms it is the '68 and that
the sound is dramatically improved from the Great
Performances release. That's good news, but I don't know if
I can splurge for the box. My wife would kill me and it's
too big to hide.
You needn't buy the big box to get the 1968 (Philharmonic Hall) recording.
This is it: ASIN: B00000DRZT
https://www.amazon.com/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-Fantastique-Performances/dp/B00000DRZT/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502207994&sr=1-2&keywords=bernstein+Symphonie+Fantastique
Of course, but the point was the improved sound in the new box.
Post by n***@gmail.com
You are correct in your identifications (and I own all 3 CDs: Great Performances, Royal Edition and B. Century as well as the LP Columbia Masterworks MS 7278 plus the accompanying bonus record Berlioz Takes a Trip.
The timings on the MS 7278 jacket matches those of the Great Performances (Newsprint) release.
n***@gmail.com
2017-08-09 15:56:40 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by JohnA
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series. At leas I think so. Some say it was a better
performance (apparently Berstein's dissatisfaction with the
'63 was why it was re-recoded so soon), but the sonics are
somewhat muffled and compressed. Oddly, I own 52 different
performance of SF, but not that one.
The 1968 version was just reissued in the New York Philharmonic Sony box.
Unless they've confused the '63 and '68 recordings again.
However, one Amazon reiewer, confirms it is the '68 and that
the sound is dramatically improved from the Great
Performances release. That's good news, but I don't know if
I can splurge for the box. My wife would kill me and it's
too big to hide.
You needn't buy the big box to get the 1968 (Philharmonic Hall) recording.
This is it: ASIN: B00000DRZT
https://www.amazon.com/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-Fantastique-Performances/dp/B00000DRZT/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1502207994&sr=1-2&keywords=bernstein+Symphonie+Fantastique
Of course, but the point was the improved sound in the new box.
My mistake, having failed to notice that lanolin had been added.
Post by Frank Berger
Post by n***@gmail.com
You are correct in your identifications (and I own all 3 CDs: Great Performances, Royal Edition and B. Century as well as the LP Columbia Masterworks MS 7278 plus the accompanying bonus record Berlioz Takes a Trip.
The timings on the MS 7278 jacket matches those of the Great Performances (Newsprint) release.
Mike
2017-08-16 16:31:27 UTC
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I have the 2015 Japanese Columbia CD SICC-1923 which contains both the 1968 SF and Berlioz Takes a Trip. The insert contains both English and Japanese text.
Post by n***@gmail.com
You are correct in your identifications (and I own all 3 CDs: Great Performances, Royal Edition and B. Century as well as the LP Columbia Masterworks MS 7278 plus the accompanying bonus record Berlioz Takes a Trip.
The timings on the MS 7278 jacket matches those of the Great Performances (Newsprint) release.
Mike
2017-08-16 16:33:47 UTC
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I have the 2015 Japanese Sony CD SICC-1923 which contains both the 1968 SF and Berlioz Takes a Trip. The insert contains both English and Japanese text.
Post by n***@gmail.com
You are correct in your identifications (and I own all 3 CDs: Great Performances, Royal Edition and B. Century as well as the LP Columbia Masterworks MS 7278 plus the accompanying bonus record Berlioz Takes a Trip.
p***@classicalnotes.net
2017-08-08 15:49:23 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series.
You certainly could be right. Just now I did re-compare the Royal Edition and Bernstein Century CDs and they clearly are the same performance, even though the Royal Edition claims the 1968 recording, while the Century claims the 1963. Unfortunately, I don't have the LPs, so I can't tell which one this actually is. (And for what it's worth, I do prefer the mastering on the earlier Royal Edition, compared to which the Century sounds crude and adds significant rumble).
Frank Berger
2017-08-08 16:08:27 UTC
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Post by p***@classicalnotes.net
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series.
You certainly could be right. Just now I did re-compare the Royal Edition and Bernstein Century CDs and they clearly are the same performance, even though the Royal Edition claims the 1968 recording, while the Century claims the 1963. Unfortunately, I don't have the LPs, so I can't tell which one this actually is. (And for what it's worth, I do prefer the mastering on the earlier Royal Edition, compared to which the Century sounds crude and adds significant rumble).
My observation was based doing research, by the way, not my
own listening. One Amazon reviewer says the easiest way to
tell the '63 and the '68 apart is the timing of the 3rd
movement. 17:14 for the '63 and 15:09 for the '68.
Bozo
2017-08-08 16:20:36 UTC
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Berlioz / Liszt / Petrov transcription:

(audio only)

Cd: http://tinyurl.com/yc7v9zuk
p***@classicalnotes.net
2017-08-08 16:21:14 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by p***@classicalnotes.net
Post by Frank Berger
I'm pretty sure the author of that review article was
confused about the NYPO Bernstein recordings. He says Sony
60968 (Bernstein Century) contains the 1968 recording not
the claimed 1963. I think that's wrong. The Royal Edition
claimed to be the 1968, but was the 1963. The 1968 version
was only released on CD as part of the "Great Performances"
series.
You certainly could be right. Just now I did re-compare the Royal Edition and Bernstein Century CDs and they clearly are the same performance, even though the Royal Edition claims the 1968 recording, while the Century claims the 1963. Unfortunately, I don't have the LPs, so I can't tell which one this actually is. (And for what it's worth, I do prefer the mastering on the earlier Royal Edition, compared to which the Century sounds crude and adds significant rumble).
My observation was based doing research, by the way, not my
own listening. One Amazon reviewer says the easiest way to
tell the '63 and the '68 apart is the timing of the 3rd
movement. 17:14 for the '63 and 15:09 for the '68.
OK -- amazingly enough I did find my LP of the 1968 performance (MS 7278, with the vaguely psychedelic cover) and can confirm that it is significantly different (including the timings you cite - indeed, all the movements are significantly faster in the remake) from the version on both the Royal Edition and Bernstein Century CDs. So I can confirm that both of them do have the 1963 version. Phew!
Arno Schuh
2017-08-08 19:07:08 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just
wondering what you're favorites are.
There are some very fine recordings, but there is a special part in this
symphonie in the 5th movement: the bell.
I don't like it when the bell didn't sound like a bell.
For Berlioz himself it seems this detail wasn't important, because he
alternatively alowed to play this part by a piano.
However, a good impression for me is distroied when the bell sounds like a
backing tray or a door bell.
In one of Herbert von Karajan's recordings he used a sampled bell that sound
pretty impressive. Apart from the Karajan recordings, the John Eliot
Gardiner and Pierre Boulez recordings are my favourite ones.

Arno
p***@classicalnotes.net
2017-08-08 20:31:15 UTC
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Post by Arno Schuh
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just
wondering what you're favorites are.
There are some very fine recordings, but there is a special part in this
symphonie in the 5th movement: the bell.
I don't like it when the bell didn't sound like a bell.
For Berlioz himself it seems this detail wasn't important, because he
alternatively alowed to play this part by a piano.
However, a good impression for me is distroied when the bell sounds like a
backing tray or a door bell.
In one of Herbert von Karajan's recordings he used a sampled bell that sound
pretty impressive. Apart from the Karajan recordings, the John Eliot
Gardiner and Pierre Boulez recordings are my favourite ones.
Arno
FYI, the original Ansermet LP (London CSA 2101) came with extensive rehearsal notes and a bonus LP of rehearsals. The notes (by John Mordler) state: "One of the reasons why, in the past, Maestro Ansermet had been unwilling to perform the Symphonie Fantastique was that all the orchestral bells that he had ever heard in his work had invariably sounded too high. He said that if he was to record it, he wanted them to sound in the right octave. So we had them specially made for the recording by a foundry in Germany. In order to obtain the sound of distant cathedral bells that we wanted James Lock, the recording engineer, who, incidentally, has been responsible for the London Geneva sound for the past few years, decided to place them way behind the conductor, at the back of the auditorium. Now the pitch of the fundamental, and the overtones, are determined by the strength with which they are hit, as well as by the type of hammer; what you hear is the moment in the first rehearsal, when Monsieur Lombard, head of the percussion department, took one of his hammers and pitched into them. They swung out of control, and by the time the overtones reached the ears of the musicians, at the other end of the hall, they were decidedly off key. The musicians started to laugh and you hear Maestro stopping the rehearsal to tell them that the overtones of real bells do sound out of tune anyway, otherwise they would not be real bells. "What you hear are bells - not a xylophone. We play in tune, the bells play out of tune - that's just as it should be."
Alan Dawes
2017-08-09 08:22:44 UTC
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Post by Arno Schuh
There are some very fine recordings, but there is a special part in this
symphonie in the 5th movement: the bell.
I don't like it when the bell didn't sound like a bell.
I think the best bell I've heard on a recording is that on the blu-ray of
the EuropaKonzert 2001 from the Eirene church Istanbul. It's conducted by
Mariss Jansons with the Berlin Phil. It's a very good live performance in
good stereo and 5.1 sound. The rest of the concert is Haydn 94 and Mozart
flute concerto no.2. The blu-ray - EuroArts 2051444 - also contains an
interesting documentary - Behind the scenes A Portrait of Istanbul. I
would strongly recommend it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Berlioz-Europakonzert-Istambul-Philharmoniker/dp/B00GZALWVA/

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
g***@gmail.com
2017-08-08 20:42:43 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Has Kojian's recording already been mentioned?:

https://referencerecordings.com/recording/berlioz-symphonie-fantastique/
Gerard
2017-08-08 21:03:11 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
I've quite a few recordings of this work too, but don't like them ALL ;-)
(For example the 1968 recording by Bernstein. And Païta.)
The recording by Colin Davis with the Concertgebouw Orchestra has been my favorite during a long time.
But now my favorite is the remake by Jansons (with his Bayern orchestra).
Terry
2017-08-09 00:52:24 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
I too have /have had several recordings of this work. My first experience of it was Dorari/Minnesota on Mercury. The one I like most is Markevitch and the Lamoreux (DGG), a really fine interpretation; still good sound; and a genuinely French orchestral tone from the mid 20th century, when orchestras had some individual character -- especially French, Russian and Czech orchestras.
Randy Lane
2017-08-09 02:44:33 UTC
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Munch (mono and stereo) and Paray are my most frequented versions.
Kerrison
2017-08-09 06:12:19 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
Munch (mono and stereo) and Paray are my most frequented versions.
I'm content enough with Paray / Detroit; Goossens / LSO; Stokowski / NPO; and Paita / LSO. Can't recall the last time I listened to any of them but in view of this thread I guess I'd better pull one off the shelf, most probably the Paray.
Gerard
2017-08-09 10:17:48 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
Post by Randy Lane
Munch (mono and stereo) and Paray are my most frequented versions.
I'm content enough with Paray / Detroit; Goossens / LSO; Stokowski / NPO; and Paita / LSO. Can't recall the last time I listened to any of them but in view of this thread I guess I'd better pull one off the shelf, most probably the Paray.
The recording by Paray was my "imprinting" version. I still like it (after >60 other versions).
Another favorite: Chung (DG).
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-09 14:18:11 UTC
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Post by Gerard
Post by Kerrison
Post by Randy Lane
Munch (mono and stereo) and Paray are my most frequented versions.
I'm content enough with Paray / Detroit; Goossens / LSO; Stokowski / NPO; and Paita / LSO. Can't recall the last time I listened to any of them but in view of this thread I guess I'd better pull one off the shelf, most probably the Paray.
The recording by Paray was my "imprinting" version. I still like it (after >60 other versions).
Another favorite: Chung (DG).
I just heard the Minkowski on Amazon Music and my initial impression is really positive. Though known for sometimes excessive speed the third movement is actually slower than usual but never loses its shape and is ravishingly beautiful. The last two movements almost go off the rails with excitement and he also uses a ophicleides. Liked this one!!! Just downloaded the Paray and that's up next!!!
Gerard
2017-08-10 10:56:35 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by Gerard
Post by Kerrison
Post by Randy Lane
Munch (mono and stereo) and Paray are my most frequented versions.
I'm content enough with Paray / Detroit; Goossens / LSO; Stokowski / NPO; and Paita / LSO. Can't recall the last time I listened to any of them but in view of this thread I guess I'd better pull one off the shelf, most probably the Paray.
The recording by Paray was my "imprinting" version. I still like it (after >60 other versions).
Another favorite: Chung (DG).
I just heard the Minkowski on Amazon Music and my initial impression is really positive. Though known for sometimes excessive speed the third movement is actually slower than usual but never loses its shape and is ravishingly beautiful. The last two movements almost go off the rails with excitement and he also uses a ophicleides. Liked this one!!!
The recording by Minkowski has been reissued on Brilliant Classics. Recommended indeed.
g***@gmail.com
2017-08-09 21:01:21 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
2014 Discussion of best S.F.'s:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/symphonie$20fantastique%7Csort:relevance/rec.music.classical.recordings/89Pk8isxNz0/w6v7LNyF7QsJ
Russ (not Martha)
2017-08-10 16:38:45 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
First learned the work from the Montuex/SFSO 78's. recall that the chimes in the finale were very harsh and intimidating - C-C-G hardly recognizable - and appropriate in context.

First LP was Dorati/Minneapolis - Dorati does observe the 'meno allegro' at the beginning of the C-major fugato in the finale, but I have to say I like to hear an orchestra rip thru the episode, as seems to be the fashion.

On CD I have:

Beinum/Concertgebouw (mono): Marvelous playing and an incomparably flatulent bass trombone in the 'March to the Scaffold.'
Muti/Phila
Ozawa/BSO. Very quick 'March to the Scaffold.'
Paray/Detroit
Solti/CSO

Probably won't be laying in any more versions.

Russ (not Martha)
Orchman
2017-08-11 13:30:28 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
r***@gmail.com
2017-08-11 14:53:50 UTC
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Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)

These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-11 16:25:38 UTC
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Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)
These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
is that Cluytens live???? I understand his live recording was better than his studios
r***@gmail.com
2017-08-12 06:33:20 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)
These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
is that Cluytens live???? I understand his live recording was better than his studios
Skinny documentation. It sounds like a studio recording to me. The French orchestral sound that is no more adds a lot to the ones that have it. I understand that the Toulouse Capitole recordings made by Plasson kept this sound throughout, but I don't have most of them and the two EMI collections are OOP and vastly expensive now - one of French Operas and the other of French Orchestral works.
Kerrison
2017-08-12 07:10:38 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)
These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
I once told myself that no-one needs more than 5 recordings of any given work but due to a disease called "collectoritis" I fear it hasn't quite worked out like that. Sounds like you might have it too!
Arno Schuh
2017-08-12 13:14:45 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
I once told myself that no-one needs more than 5 recordings of any
given work but due to a disease called "collectoritis" I fear it
hasn't quite worked out like that. Sounds like you might have it too!
In the beginning of my "collectoritis" I trashed all bad recordings. But
years after year, when other collectors ask me for examples what I mean with
a bad recording I decided to also keep these really bad examples - just to
show what I mean with a bad technical quality and/or performance, recording
philosophy etc.
So my collection not only contains the treasuries of pearls and jewels, but
also a lot of real garbage.

Arno
Randy Lane
2017-08-12 18:00:04 UTC
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I suppose I have some extreme form of "collectoritis" then and should find a therapist?

The versions I have that have been ripped from media to FLAC/MP#:

Beecham , ONRF - 1957
Beecham , ONRF - 1959
Bernstein , NYPO - 1968
Bernstein , ONDF - 1976
Cluytens , OSCC - 1955
Cluytens , PO - 1958
Davis , ACO - 1974
Davis , LSO - 1963
Davis , LSO - 2000
Horenstein , BRSO - 1963
Karajan , BPO - 1964
Karajan , BPO - 1975
Karajan , PO - 1954
Klemperer , PO - 1963
Markevitch , BPO - 1953
Markevitch , LO - 1962
Mehta , NYPO - 1979
Monteux , SFSO - 1945
Monteux , SFSO - 1950
Monteux , VPO - 1958
Münch , BSO - 1954
Münch , BSO - 1962
Münch , HRTO - 1966
Ozawa , BSO - 1973
Paray , DSO - 1959
Plasson , ONCT - 1989
Silvestri , PCO - 1961
Solti , CSO - 1972
Stokowski , NPO - 1968
van Beinum , ACO - 1946
van Beinum , ACO - 1951

And I know many that have not gotten around to ripping, including the second Solti, the "other" Bernstein/NYPO, and Scherchen.

To answer an earlier question about Cluytens, the two above are studio.
There is a live recording from Tokyo:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ICM8UU/

I ordered that CD used from Japan but have not received it yet.
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-12 18:21:39 UTC
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Post by Randy Lane
I suppose I have some extreme form of "collectoritis" then and should find a therapist?
Beecham , ONRF - 1957
Beecham , ONRF - 1959
Bernstein , NYPO - 1968
Bernstein , ONDF - 1976
Cluytens , OSCC - 1955
Cluytens , PO - 1958
Davis , ACO - 1974
Davis , LSO - 1963
Davis , LSO - 2000
Horenstein , BRSO - 1963
Karajan , BPO - 1964
Karajan , BPO - 1975
Karajan , PO - 1954
Klemperer , PO - 1963
Markevitch , BPO - 1953
Markevitch , LO - 1962
Mehta , NYPO - 1979
Monteux , SFSO - 1945
Monteux , SFSO - 1950
Monteux , VPO - 1958
Münch , BSO - 1954
Münch , BSO - 1962
Münch , HRTO - 1966
Ozawa , BSO - 1973
Paray , DSO - 1959
Plasson , ONCT - 1989
Silvestri , PCO - 1961
Solti , CSO - 1972
Stokowski , NPO - 1968
van Beinum , ACO - 1946
van Beinum , ACO - 1951
And I know many that have not gotten around to ripping, including the second Solti, the "other" Bernstein/NYPO, and Scherchen.
To answer an earlier question about Cluytens, the two above are studio.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ICM8UU/
I ordered that CD used from Japan but have not received it yet.
I just heard the Paray I really think the first three movements are too fast and he runs over moments of introspection and feeling but the last two movements are rally gangbusters
Randy Lane
2017-08-12 18:32:18 UTC
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Correction. Don't have Scherchen on CD. Not in Korean or UMG Westminster sets, and not in DG or Scribendum Scherchen sets.
r***@gmail.com
2017-08-13 14:54:33 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)
These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
I once told myself that no-one needs more than 5 recordings of any given work but due to a disease called "collectoritis" I fear it hasn't quite worked out like that. Sounds like you might have it too!
And then some!
r***@gmail.com
2017-08-13 15:09:36 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Orchman
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
Solti/ CSO x 2, ['72, '92] both are excellent...
Mitropoulos/NYPO
Beecham EMI 1950s Paris mono. As French an interpretation as you could find recorded on tape.
Markevitch Paris likewise.
Beecham stereo RPO
Dorati
Paray
Bernstein 1968
Solti (2) as above
Boulez Cleveland (with Lelio)
Cluytens Paris Conservatory EMI
Davis LSO live
Martinon EMI (with Lelio)
These are all acceptable to very good. I have many others that I don't listen to anymore.
I once told myself that no-one needs more than 5 recordings of any given work but due to a disease called "collectoritis" I fear it hasn't quite worked out like that. Sounds like you might have it too!
I suppose I should substantiate the 'and then some' comment. This list is the tip of my Berlioz iceberg, or mountain, if you prefer. I haven't cared to list my excesses in print like this. There are many radio recordings, many from this or other similar collector's groups, but these are the memorable ones, to me at least.
Gerald Martin
2017-08-14 15:39:45 UTC
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The 1951 Willem Van Otterloo/ Berlin Philharmonic has its adherents; however I seem to be alone in insisting that the performance on the current IMP CD is NOT that recording.
Frank Berger
2017-08-14 15:47:00 UTC
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Post by Gerald Martin
The 1951 Willem Van Otterloo/ Berlin Philharmonic has its adherents; however I seem to be alone in insisting that the performance on the current IMP CD is NOT that recording.
Hmm. I have two Otterloo performances on CD. One with the
Berlin PO on Philips from 1951 and the other with the Hague
PO on Challenge Classics from 1959.
Mr. Mike
2017-08-17 23:49:40 UTC
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ARG did a Berlioz overview in their Jan/Feb 1995 issue where the
contributors really went to town with sarcastic comments on some of
the Symphonie Fantastique recordings:

"At 60:26 Skrowaczewski on Chandos may be the longest ever recorded;
while I is not without vigor, the introduction suggests that our hero
is struggling gamely against a sea of molasses, while the 'Scene in
the Fields' is like watching cells divide in slow motion. Only through
the most remarkable control on the part of the London Symphony players
is the musical thread able to survive intact without snapping under
the strain, while Chandos's echo-chamber acoustics make it difficult
to sort things out at the climax of I. As if that weren't bad enough,
Chandos went and shot themselves in the foot a >second< time with the
Rozhdestvensky two years later, with its incredible timing of 18:45
for the 'Scene aux champs'. The idée fixe is pulled about like taffy
in I, while in the 'March to the Scaffold' you keep wondering whether
the poor bastard is ever going to make it to his own funeral.
Rozhdestvensky even manages to make the 'Witches' Sabbath' sound
boring -- no mean feat -- due in part to chimes that sound more like a
doorbell.

"Yet if Rozhdestvensky drags his feet, Temirkanov on RCA is positively
bizarre, alternately drawing out slower passages to the point that you
expect to hear snoring emanating from the orchestra, then speeding off
in a shower of gravel. Maybe Bernstein could pull off such an
approach, but Temirkanov merely sounds exaggerated to the point of
affectation. As if that weren't bad enough, the harp is way too
distant in 'Un Bal' and you can hardly hear the bells in the 'Witches'
Sabbath'."

y***@gmail.com
2017-08-13 06:49:31 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
I'm wondering if you're familiar with the Pentatone version of Davis and the Concertgebouw. It's an SACD from the actual 4-channel master tapes. Some people may think Davis is too tame and sane in Berlioz, but he is a well-balanced conductor in this repertoire.

Apart from Gardiner, I'm wondering if any of you are familiar with a DGG version featuring Abbado and the CSO.
n***@gmail.com
2017-08-14 15:50:01 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
All this discussion regarding the SF led me to watch Gardiner's/ORR performance on the Decca DVD. Of the unusual things (on my part) it can be seen 5 (five) harps are used, three on one side of the orchestra (left) and two on the other side. At times IIRC all five are being played. I believe the entire performance can be seen on youtube:
so everyone should be able to watch and confirm it.
As this Gardiner/ORR performance is said to be really *authentic*, and again IIRC performed in the hall where the premier too place. How many harps did Berlioz call for? Most sources (including Wiki) indicate 2 harps.
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-14 16:01:24 UTC
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Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
All this discussion regarding the SF led me to watch Gardiner's/ORR performance on the Decca DVD. Of the unusual things (on my part) it can be seen 5 (five) harps are used, three on one side of the orchestra (left) and two on the other side. At times IIRC all five are being played. I believe the entire performance can be seen on youtube: http://youtu.be/C3pA38q-hoY so everyone should be able to watch and confirm it.
As this Gardiner/ORR performance is said to be really *authentic*, and again IIRC performed in the hall where the premier too place. How many harps did Berlioz call for? Most sources (including Wiki) indicate 2 harps.
David Daniels' Orchestral Music: A Handbook (a valuable reference for symphony librarians) says the piece calls for 4 harps "doubling two real parts."

Mark
Kerrison
2017-08-14 16:43:31 UTC
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There are several interesting performances on You Tube which raise the question of the bells in the finale. In this article, it is stated that "there is no adequate equivalent for the deep bells that Berlioz had in mind (bars 102-223) and instead a piano sound has been used for this passage – a practice followed by Berlioz himself in his concert tours when suitable bells were not available" ...

http://www.hberlioz.com/Scores/sfantastique.htm

In Stokowski's live 1968 performance with the New Philharmonia, as broadcast by the BBC and issued on a BBC Legends CD, we hear an on-stage piano and deep bells at 42:15 ...



However, for a Proms performance given by Mariss Jansons and the Bavarian Radio Symphony in 2013, the bells are situated up in the Royal Albert Hall gallery and don't sound remotely "deep" at all ... They come in at 49:25 ...



In this Andre Cluytens performance, from Japan in 1964 with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra, the pitch of the bells used is wildly approximate, at 42:25 ...



In this Abbado / Chicago SO performance, we again get what sound like low piano notes doubling the bells at 47:15, though the effect is a bit weird ...



In this Danish Radio SO performance at 45:45, Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos opts for dangling metal sheets! ...



The permutations and choices seem many and varied. Does any version opt solely for the piano at this point? It would seem to be authentic, if that's indeed what Berlioz himself used.

I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
m***@gmail.com
2017-08-14 22:54:54 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
There are several interesting performances on You Tube which raise the question of the bells in the finale. In this article, it is stated that "there is no adequate equivalent for the deep bells that Berlioz had in mind (bars 102-223) and instead a piano sound has been used for this passage – a practice followed by Berlioz himself in his concert tours when suitable bells were not available" ...
http://www.hberlioz.com/Scores/sfantastique.htm
In Stokowski's live 1968 performance with the New Philharmonia, as broadcast by the BBC and issued on a BBC Legends CD, we hear an on-stage piano and deep bells at 42:15 ...
http://youtu.be/DLg-j6JbaqM
However, for a Proms performance given by Mariss Jansons and the Bavarian Radio Symphony in 2013, the bells are situated up in the Royal Albert Hall gallery and don't sound remotely "deep" at all ... They come in at 49:25 ...
http://youtu.be/yK6iAxe0oEc
In this Andre Cluytens performance, from Japan in 1964 with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra, the pitch of the bells used is wildly approximate, at 42:25 ...
http://youtu.be/0DWjI1uLSzw
In this Abbado / Chicago SO performance, we again get what sound like low piano notes doubling the bells at 47:15, though the effect is a bit weird ...
http://youtu.be/SCuKg6Dgc6I
In this Danish Radio SO performance at 45:45, Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos opts for dangling metal sheets! ...
http://youtu.be/W9CYLAuKdtU
The permutations and choices seem many and varied. Does any version opt solely for the piano at this point? It would seem to be authentic, if that's indeed what Berlioz himself used.
I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
I think I read that special bells were built for the Ansermet recording
r***@gmail.com
2017-08-14 23:11:38 UTC
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Post by Kerrison
There are several interesting performances on You Tube which raise the question of the bells in the finale. In this article, it is stated that "there is no adequate equivalent for the deep bells that Berlioz had in mind (bars 102-223) and instead a piano sound has been used for this passage – a practice followed by Berlioz himself in his concert tours when suitable bells were not available" ...
http://www.hberlioz.com/Scores/sfantastique.htm
In Stokowski's live 1968 performance with the New Philharmonia, as broadcast by the BBC and issued on a BBC Legends CD, we hear an on-stage piano and deep bells at 42:15 ...
http://youtu.be/DLg-j6JbaqM
However, for a Proms performance given by Mariss Jansons and the Bavarian Radio Symphony in 2013, the bells are situated up in the Royal Albert Hall gallery and don't sound remotely "deep" at all ... They come in at 49:25 ...
http://youtu.be/yK6iAxe0oEc
In this Andre Cluytens performance, from Japan in 1964 with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra, the pitch of the bells used is wildly approximate, at 42:25 ...
http://youtu.be/0DWjI1uLSzw
In this Abbado / Chicago SO performance, we again get what sound like low piano notes doubling the bells at 47:15, though the effect is a bit weird ...
http://youtu.be/SCuKg6Dgc6I
In this Danish Radio SO performance at 45:45, Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos opts for dangling metal sheets! ...
http://youtu.be/W9CYLAuKdtU
The permutations and choices seem many and varied. Does any version opt solely for the piano at this point? It would seem to be authentic, if that's indeed what Berlioz himself used.
I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
IIRC Beecham used cornets in the mono EMI recording
Alan Dawes
2017-08-15 11:36:46 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Kerrison
I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added
cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
IIRC Beecham used cornets in the mono EMI recording
A quick look at the recordings I have show that Cornets are used by:

Jean Martinin O.Nationale de l'ORTF (EMI 1973)
Colin Davis Concertgebouw (Philips 1/1974) and I think his other
recordings.
John Eliot Gardiner O. Rev et Rom. (Philips 10/1994)
Gergiev LSO (LSO Live 31 Oct and 14 Nov 2013)
I don't have it with me so I cann't check but my memory is the 2001
EuropaKonzert has the added cornets as well as the "best" bell as I
mentioned in a previous post on EuroArts blu-ray 2051444.

Alan
--
***@argonet.co.uk
***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Alan P Dawes
2017-08-15 17:30:22 UTC
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Post by Alan Dawes
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Kerrison
I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added
cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
IIRC Beecham used cornets in the mono EMI recording
Jean Martinin O.Nationale de l'ORTF (EMI 1973)
Colin Davis Concertgebouw (Philips 1/1974) and I think his other
recordings.
John Eliot Gardiner O. Rev et Rom. (Philips 10/1994)
Gergiev LSO (LSO Live 31 Oct and 14 Nov 2013)
I don't have it with me so I cann't check but my memory is the 2001
EuropaKonzert has the added cornets as well as the "best" bell as I
mentioned in a previous post on EuroArts blu-ray 2051444.
I should have mentioned that there are optional cornet parts in the finale
(possibly also in the other movements).

Just watched the last movement of the Gergiev (LSO Live often include a
video unfortunatle only in stereo) but the bells sound very tiny and are
not seen on the video.

However the Mariss Jansons Berlin PO EuropaKonzert has large resonant
bells marked Berlin Philharmonica which sound splendid so they must have
been transported to Turkey for the concert. The last movement is on
YouTube:



Alan
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***@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
Gerard
2017-08-16 09:16:49 UTC
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Post by Alan Dawes
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Kerrison
I suppose we next have to find out which recordings use the added
cornet part in the second movement 'Valse'!
IIRC Beecham used cornets in the mono EMI recording
Jean Martinin O.Nationale de l'ORTF (EMI 1973)
Colin Davis Concertgebouw (Philips 1/1974) and I think his other
recordings.
John Eliot Gardiner O. Rev et Rom. (Philips 10/1994)
Gergiev LSO (LSO Live 31 Oct and 14 Nov 2013)
I don't have it with me so I cann't check but my memory is the 2001
EuropaKonzert has the added cornets as well as the "best" bell as I
mentioned in a previous post on EuroArts blu-ray 2051444.
Alan
--
Using an ARMX6
Quite a few recordings have the cornet part in the second movement.
2 I came across these days: Immerseel and Paavo Järvi.
A special case is Slatkin on Naxos. He gives 2 versions: without cornet, and a cornet concerto (weird).
n***@gmail.com
2017-08-16 15:59:47 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by m***@gmail.com
I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
All this discussion regarding the SF led me to watch Gardiner's/ORR performance on the Decca DVD. Of the unusual things (on my part) it can be seen 5 (five) harps are used, three on one side of the orchestra (left) and two on the other side. At times IIRC all five are being played. I believe the entire performance can be seen on youtube: http://youtu.be/C3pA38q-hoY so everyone should be able to watch and confirm it.
As this Gardiner/ORR performance is said to be really *authentic*, and again IIRC performed in the hall where the premier too place. How many harps did Berlioz call for? Most sources (including Wiki) indicate 2 harps.
David Daniels' Orchestral Music: A Handbook (a valuable reference for symphony librarians) says the piece calls for 4 harps "doubling two real parts."
It's not a question of doubled parts, but rather how many harps did Berlioz call for on the stage during the premiere performance in the Conservatoire in Paris on the night of 5 December 1830? In the Gardiner recorded performance ( http://youtu.be/C3pA38q-hoY at ~14:20 I count at least five. Wasn't Gardiner's purpose to duplicate the 'sound picture' that Berlioz intended to be heard on that particular night, regardless of all other considerations?
Post by m***@gmail.com
Mark
boombox
2017-08-16 20:54:56 UTC
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I have quite a few recordings of this work and like them all - just wondering what you're favorites are.
A new favorite is Daniel Harding with the Swedish Radio Symphony. One English critic's reaction I read sums it up pretty well: it's a corker.
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