Discussion:
Dvorak Symphony #6
(too old to reply)
c***@gmail.com
2017-08-05 13:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
For several years I've been hunting for a 1968 recording of the Dvorak
Symphony #6 by the Boston Symphony under Erich Leinsdorf. It is on the RCA
label, and is without question the finest recording/performance of this
great symphony I've ever heard, and I've heard them all (including Kertesz,
Kubelik, etc.). If anyone has a copy and/or knows how to obtain it, let me
know.
Thanks,
Bruce M. Hyman
Apologies for reviving a 14-year-old thread and I hope Mr. Hyman found a copy eventually, but I have a query about Leinsdorf in Dvorak 6. I don't know the 1968 BSO but I know the 1946 Cleveland and I have just been listening to a 1986 NYPO performance that has recently appeared on Gordon Skene's Past Daily. The 1986 performance is glorious BUT, Leinsdorf makes a vicious cut in the second movement (9 bars before D to E, that's more than 30 bars and one of my favourite Dvorak surprise climaxes gone). Back in 1946, Leinsdorf didn't make that cut. Did he make it in the 1968 recording, does anybody know?
Russ (not Martha)
2017-08-05 18:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
No apologies necessary; sometimes revived old threads are more interesting than the current ones.

I have four Dvorak 6's: Ancrel/CzPO, Neumann/CzPO, Chung/VPO, and the Leinsorf/BSO under discussion, which I remastered to CD myself back in 2003, and whose sound I believe is something of an improvement over the original LP.

As to a cut in the Leindorf slow movt, I can't speak to this; I do love the symphony and know the quick movts pretty well, but I do drift off a bit during the adagio. I can listen to the Leinsdorf along with the score and report back one way or another.

Russ (not Martha, and old enough to remember when Dvorak Symphony #6 was #1)
YM ​יוֹשִׁיוּכִּי
2017-08-05 18:54:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Russ (not Martha)
No apologies necessary; sometimes revived old threads are more interesting than the current ones.
At times apologies is very important. So, please do it for me!

YM
Kerrison
2017-08-06 07:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by YM ​יוֹשִׁיוּכִּי
Post by Russ (not Martha)
No apologies necessary; sometimes revived old threads are more interesting than the current ones.
At times apologies is very important. So, please do it for me!
YM
Interesting to read some of the diametrically opposite opinions above on the Leinsdorf / BSO LP. However, I doubt if anyone would want to shell out nearly $200 to find out who's right ...

https://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphony-Slavonic-Dances-Leinsdorf/dp/B002QUFXC2
c***@gmail.com
2017-08-06 17:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Russ (not Martha)
No apologies necessary; sometimes revived old threads are more interesting than the current ones.
I have four Dvorak 6's: Ancrel/CzPO, Neumann/CzPO, Chung/VPO, and the Leinsorf/BSO under discussion, which I remastered to CD myself back in 2003, and whose sound I believe is something of an improvement over the original LP.
As to a cut in the Leindorf slow movt, I can't speak to this; I do love the symphony and know the quick movts pretty well, but I do drift off a bit during the adagio. I can listen to the Leinsdorf along with the score and report back one way or another.
Russ (not Martha, and old enough to remember when Dvorak Symphony #6 was #1)
Well, if you drift off during the adagio and the BSO recording is uncut, perhaps the NYPO version will be the one for you. It looks as if Leinsdorf agreed with you in later years and he's terrific with what's left
Frank Berger
2017-08-06 19:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Russ (not Martha)
No apologies necessary; sometimes revived old threads are more interesting than the current ones.
I have four Dvorak 6's: Ancrel/CzPO, Neumann/CzPO, Chung/VPO, and the Leinsorf/BSO under discussion, which I remastered to CD myself back in 2003, and whose sound I believe is something of an improvement over the original LP.
As to a cut in the Leindorf slow movt, I can't speak to this; I do love the symphony and know the quick movts pretty well, but I do drift off a bit during the adagio. I can listen to the Leinsdorf along with the score and report back one way or another.
Russ (not Martha, and old enough to remember when Dvorak Symphony #6 was #1)
Well, if you drift off during the adagio and the BSO recording is uncut, perhaps the NYPO version will be the one for you. It looks as if Leinsdorf agreed with you in later years and he's terrific with what's left
Although I own 16 different performances of the 6th, I'm not
sure I really need any of them aside from Sejna. What's the
expression? One of the best recordings of anything ever.
Russ (not Martha)
2017-08-06 20:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I just listened to my own remastered CD of the 1968 Leinsdorf/BSO Dvorak Symphony #6 following the score, and Leinsdorf plays the slow movement complete - no cut.

Russ (not Martha)
Lawrence Kart
2017-08-07 02:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The accounts from Mr. Watkins of the various Dvorak 6 recordings and performances he played on are interesting in the light of further developments.
c***@gmail.com
2017-08-07 06:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lawrence Kart
The accounts from Mr. Watkins of the various Dvorak 6 recordings and performances he played on are interesting in the light of further developments.
AW: For me, the opening movement of 6 should be like a small but beautiful
rural river for that is what it reminds me of (too many hours gazing
at the Vltava and, when I was younger, walking in the mountains I
guess)"
A far cry from rural English trains and buses!

AW: "It is also, in my submission, a very Czech work. Even in the slow
movement, the timpani are adding polka rhythms in the background as if
in preparation for the Furiant based Scherzo which is to follow".
Pity no one took this up at the time. The timps play a total of 23 bars in this slow movement, 8 of them a straight roll. The 8 bars starting from letter F might vaguely sound like a polka if played at more than double the tempo of the rest of the orchestra, played in tempo they sound no more like a polka than anything in Brahms.
Andrew Clarke
2017-08-07 12:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Lawrence Kart
The accounts from Mr. Watkins of the various Dvorak 6 recordings and performances he played on are interesting in the light of further developments.
AW: For me, the opening movement of 6 should be like a small but beautiful
rural river for that is what it reminds me of (too many hours gazing
at the Vltava and, when I was younger, walking in the mountains I
guess)"
A far cry from rural English trains and buses!
AW: "It is also, in my submission, a very Czech work. Even in the slow
movement, the timpani are adding polka rhythms in the background as if
in preparation for the Furiant based Scherzo which is to follow".
Pity no one took this up at the time. The timps play a total of 23 bars in this slow movement, 8 of them a straight roll. The 8 bars starting from letter F might vaguely sound like a polka if played at more than double the tempo of the rest of the orchestra, played in tempo they sound no more like a polka than anything in Brahms.
In the same thread, Old Chap gives the etymology of "furiant" as "staggerer's dance". Sadly this doesn't seem likely:

<http://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-czech/stagger>

Perhaps the person using Old Cap's account was doing a different kind of staggering when he typed these posts.

A Czech synonym "furiant" means a bighead or a loudmouth, and the etymology given for this word is a borrowing from the Romance languages, as in "furious".

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
O
2017-08-07 12:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Lawrence Kart
The accounts from Mr. Watkins of the various Dvorak 6 recordings and
performances he played on are interesting in the light of further
developments.
AW: For me, the opening movement of 6 should be like a small but beautiful
rural river for that is what it reminds me of (too many hours gazing
at the Vltava and, when I was younger, walking in the mountains I
guess)"
A far cry from rural English trains and buses!
AW: "It is also, in my submission, a very Czech work. Even in the slow
movement, the timpani are adding polka rhythms in the background as if
in preparation for the Furiant based Scherzo which is to follow".
Pity no one took this up at the time. The timps play a total of 23 bars in
this slow movement, 8 of them a straight roll. The 8 bars starting from
letter F might vaguely sound like a polka if played at more than double the
tempo of the rest of the orchestra, played in tempo they sound no more like a
polka than anything in Brahms.
Did Weird Al Yankovic ever record the Dvorak 6?

-Owen

c***@gmail.com
2017-08-07 05:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Russ (not Martha)
I just listened to my own remastered CD of the 1968 Leinsdorf/BSO Dvorak Symphony #6 following the score, and Leinsdorf plays the slow movement complete - no cut.
Russ (not Martha)
Thanks for clearing this up. I must say, I had not thought of Leinsdorf as a cutter - he opened up a lot of the Bodanzky cuts in his Met years and he didn't cut Bruckner as other Boston music directors Koussevitzky, Munch and Steinberg did - so I find that cut in the NY performance puzzling. Since this was a delayed broadcast (Gordon Skene's Past Daily has it all, including announcements) of a program that already lasted 1h 44m (1st half had Verklarte Nacht + Stravinsky PiCo with wind, soloist Walter Klien), I even wonder if the broadcasting station had quietly doctored it to come under an hour and three quarters.
Loading...