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Where in the world is ... Simon Roberts?
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MIFrost
2018-07-18 21:19:48 UTC
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Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to him?

MIFrost
Andrew Clarke
2018-07-18 22:00:42 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to him?
MIFrost
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-roberts-0407222b> maybe???

"'Mark Obert-Thorn, an audio restoration engineer, remembers Nathan Muchnick's at 17th and Chestnut as a gathering of kindred spirits.

"During the 1990s, their buyer was an extremely well-informed Penn law student from, I believe, Australia - although he spoke with a perfect British accent - named Simon Roberts," Obert-Thorn said. "At lunchtime, collectors would converge in Muchnick's basement classical department to discuss with him, and with each other, the new releases. That's the kind of interaction you'll never get online, and which I'll miss.'"

<http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20160731_An_era_ends__Last_Center_City_store_with_classical_recordings_to_close.html> certainly!
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-19 01:48:19 UTC
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Post by Andrew Clarke
Post by MIFrost
Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to him?
MIFrost
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-roberts-0407222b> maybe???
"'Mark Obert-Thorn, an audio restoration engineer, remembers Nathan Muchnick's at 17th and Chestnut as a gathering of kindred spirits.
"During the 1990s, their buyer was an extremely well-informed Penn law student from, I believe, Australia - although he spoke with a perfect British accent - named Simon Roberts," Obert-Thorn said. "At lunchtime, collectors would converge in Muchnick's basement classical department to discuss with him, and with each other, the new releases. That's the kind of interaction you'll never get online, and which I'll miss.'"
<http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20160731_An_era_ends__Last_Center_City_store_with_classical_recordings_to_close.html> certainly!
I was one of those people who went to the basement of Nathan Muchnicks. It was actually a store that sold stereo equipment and the basement had some CDs. It was Simon who with his expertise transformed the basement into a large and interesting CD store with international clients. Unfortunately when he left the CD section went downhill rapidly.
Mike
2018-07-18 22:52:11 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to him?
MIFrost
He is still alive, well and elevating music commentary to levels of excellence that inspire unrelenting admiration.
Bob Harper
2018-07-18 23:50:47 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by MIFrost
Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to him?
MIFrost
He is still alive, well and elevating music commentary to levels of excellence that inspire unrelenting admiration.
I believe he posts on SymphonyShare, doesn't he. One of the greats.

Bob Harper
c***@yahoo.com
2018-07-19 11:36:41 UTC
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I thought that I was a member of most of the classical commentary groups. Where can one find SymphonyShare?

Phillip
MIFrost
2018-07-19 12:19:24 UTC
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Post by c***@yahoo.com
I thought that I was a member of most of the classical commentary groups. Where can one find SymphonyShare?
Phillip
Here's what I found:

http://symphonyshare.blogspot.com/

MIFrost
Bob Harper
2018-07-19 21:52:41 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Post by c***@yahoo.com
I thought that I was a member of most of the classical commentary groups. Where can one find SymphonyShare?
Phillip
http://symphonyshare.blogspot.com/
MIFrost
That's from when it first started. Try
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/symphonyshare and try to join
using the first post.

Bob Harper
Matthew Silverstein
2018-07-19 16:04:08 UTC
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Post by c***@yahoo.com
I thought that I was a member of most of the classical commentary groups.
Where can one find SymphonyShare?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/symphonyshare

Matty
Bob Harper
2018-07-19 21:55:58 UTC
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Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by c***@yahoo.com
I thought that I was a member of most of the classical commentary groups.
Where can one find SymphonyShare?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/symphonyshare
Matty
You beat me to it. I hadn't seen this wen I posted. Great minds, etc., I
suppose :).

Bob Harper
Raymond Hall
2018-07-19 00:11:23 UTC
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-Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always
-respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to
-him? 

-MIFrost 


Simon knew his 19th century romantic repertoire, especially Haydn and Beethoven. I can't remember him much wrt 20th music, (he didn't seem to be into it much), but his posts were always a pleasure to read. There was a time in rmcr when many flame wars had broken out and he disappeared during this time. RMCR now lives in a post-SR-apocalyptic period of dystopian wilderness dominated by gangs of pianophiles, who do on occasion enlighten the heart only when Hiromi and Yuja are mentioned.

Yes, I do miss Simon's commentaries, regardless of my main musical tastes.

Ray Hall, Taree
Herman
2018-07-19 08:04:45 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
-Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several years. I always
-respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to
-him? 
-MIFrost 
Simon knew his 19th century romantic repertoire, especially Haydn and Beethoven.
Those are really pre-romantic classical composers.
Raymond Hall
2018-07-19 08:08:41 UTC
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Simon knew his 19th century romantic repertoire, especially Haydn and Beethoven. 
-Those are really pre-romantic classical composers. 

Agreed, but then who would you call the 'first' fully romantic composer?

Ray Hall, Taree
MiNe109
2018-07-19 14:31:25 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
Post by Raymond Hall
Simon knew his 19th century romantic repertoire, especially Haydn and Beethoven.
-Those are really pre-romantic classical composers.
Agreed, but then who would you call the 'first' fully romantic composer?
Berlioz.
MiNe109
2018-07-19 14:29:35 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Raymond Hall
-Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for
several years. I always -respected his opinions and choices in
music. I miss him. Anyone know what happened to -him?
-MIFrost
Simon knew his 19th century romantic repertoire, especially Haydn and Beethoven.
Those are really pre-romantic classical composers.
These labels are "increasingly problematic" in academic circles. The
abstract linked below doesn't consider Haydn and Beethoven as Romantic
or classical, but suggests "First Viennese Modernism" as a descriptive
term. There's no chance a non-academic audience would adopt this, but
it's an interesting consideration.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/ncm.2001.25.2-3.108?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Herman
2018-07-19 14:36:39 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
These labels are "increasingly problematic" in academic circles. The
abstract linked below doesn't consider Haydn and Beethoven as Romantic
or classical, but suggests "First Viennese Modernism" as a descriptive
term. There's no chance a non-academic audience would adopt this, but
it's an interesting consideration.
I wouldn't mind reading the whole article, instead of the abstract, based on which I can't help thinking 'don't fix it if it ain't broken'. I don't really see what problem this new periodization would solve.
MiNe109
2018-07-19 18:25:56 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
These labels are "increasingly problematic" in academic circles.
The abstract linked below doesn't consider Haydn and Beethoven as
Romantic or classical, but suggests "First Viennese Modernism" as a
descriptive term. There's no chance a non-academic audience would
adopt this, but it's an interesting consideration.
I wouldn't mind reading the whole article, instead of the abstract,
based on which I can't help thinking 'don't fix it if it ain't
broken'. I don't really see what problem this new periodization would
solve.
The terms classical and Romantic are ahistorical and imprecise. Music
style changed at different rates in different places for different
audiences. I'm sure Beethoven didn't think of himself as 'pre' anything!
Mozart could compose opera seria, lieder, or ground-breaking symphonies
all in a short time. Baroque, Romantic or Classical?

For the casual audience, there's no problem but many arise if one tries
to go deeper.

Stephen
Herman
2018-07-19 18:40:55 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
These labels are "increasingly problematic" in academic circles.
The abstract linked below doesn't consider Haydn and Beethoven as
Romantic or classical, but suggests "First Viennese Modernism" as a
descriptive term. There's no chance a non-academic audience would
adopt this, but it's an interesting consideration.
I wouldn't mind reading the whole article, instead of the abstract,
based on which I can't help thinking 'don't fix it if it ain't
broken'. I don't really see what problem this new periodization would
solve.
The terms classical and Romantic are ahistorical and imprecise. Music
style changed at different rates in different places for different
audiences. I'm sure Beethoven didn't think of himself as 'pre' anything!
I am not so sure, if you look at the way he pushed the envelope, both of the technicalities of the keyboard as the boundaries of the genres towards the end of his career.

but it doesn't really matter. We know what came after Beethoven and can decide to what degree it was different.
Post by MiNe109
Mozart could compose opera seria, lieder, or ground-breaking symphonies
all in a short time. Baroque, Romantic or Classical?
Classicial. This is determined to a large degree by the shape of his musical frases.
Post by MiNe109
For the casual audience, there's no problem but many arise if one tries
to go deeper.
Stephen
MiNe109
2018-07-19 19:48:24 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
These labels are "increasingly problematic" in academic
circles. The abstract linked below doesn't consider Haydn and
Beethoven as Romantic or classical, but suggests "First
Viennese Modernism" as a descriptive term. There's no chance a
non-academic audience would adopt this, but it's an interesting
consideration.
I wouldn't mind reading the whole article, instead of the
abstract, based on which I can't help thinking 'don't fix it if
it ain't broken'. I don't really see what problem this new
periodization would solve.
The terms classical and Romantic are ahistorical and imprecise.
Music style changed at different rates in different places for
different audiences. I'm sure Beethoven didn't think of himself as
'pre' anything
I am not so sure, if you look at the way he pushed the envelope, both
of the technicalities of the keyboard as the boundaries of the genres
towards the end of his career.
Of course, and he wrote of finding a new way for himself. The
ahistorical part comes when one imagines if he'd only lived longer he'd
have been Wagner, Bruckner, Debussy or whoever.

The greater point is the imprecision of the terms. Look at the many
synonyms 'pre-classical' rococco galant etc to describe the period pf
1720-1780. What you find depends on where you look and when.
Post by Herman
but it doesn't really matter. We know what came after Beethoven and
can decide to what degree it was different.
What of what came during Beethoven's life? Mehul, Cherubini, etc?
They're usually left out of the story in our emphasis on the symphonic
repertoire.
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
Mozart could compose opera seria, lieder, or ground-breaking
symphonies all in a short time. Baroque, Romantic or Classical?
Classicial. This is determined to a large degree by the shape of his musical frases.
ETA Hoffman claimed him as a Romantic. His Prague symphony first
movement is comparable to that of Beethoven's Eroica. His Jupiter has
strong Baroque qualities in a symphonic context. The G minor symphony
has challenging harmonic passages.

There's nothing wrong with the conventional view of the
classical-Romantic continuum and you clearly understand the styles and
know the works, but academicians have a different view in my experience.
Herman
2018-07-20 01:38:46 UTC
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Post by MiNe109
ETA Hoffman claimed him as a Romantic.
Of course he did.
Post by MiNe109
His Prague symphony first
movement is comparable to that of Beethoven's Eroica.
It's both ambitious symphonic music from the Classical Era, so that makes sense, doesn't it?
Post by MiNe109
His Jupiter has
strong Baroque qualities in a symphonic context.
I would not call those elements strong.
Post by MiNe109
The G minor symphony
has challenging harmonic passages.
A lot of Mozart's mature music is harmonically challenging, in his chamber music, in his opera's. That's Mozart.
Post by MiNe109
There's nothing wrong with the conventional view of the
classical-Romantic continuum and you clearly understand the styles and
know the works, but academicians have a different view in my experience.
MiNe109
2018-07-20 14:19:47 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
ETA Hoffman claimed him as a Romantic.
Of course he did.
Yes, in popularizing the term "Romantic." His perspective was closer
than ours.
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
His Prague symphony first movement is comparable to that of
Beethoven's Eroica.
It's both ambitious symphonic music from the Classical Era, so that
makes sense, doesn't it?
Or it's just music. They didn't know they were in the Classical Era.
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
His Jupiter has strong Baroque qualities in a symphonic context.
I would not call those elements strong.
Fugal themes, counterpoint, suggestions of concerto grosso. All in the
eye of the beholder whether it's strong but it's present. The Jupiter is
also known as the “Symphony with Final Fugue,” especially in Germany, I
believe.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25434420?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Much discussion of Handel, Masonry, counterpoint and more challenging
harmony in the fugal finale. Requires registration.
Post by Herman
Post by MiNe109
The G minor symphony has challenging harmonic passages.
A lot of Mozart's mature music is harmonically challenging, in his
chamber music, in his opera's. That's Mozart.
And labels don't change that!
Herman
2018-07-21 08:31:53 UTC
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Hindemith early, anti-romantic music can be exhilarating and tiresome at the same time.

Consider the difference between the Clarinet Quintet, originally composed in 1922 and the Clarinet Quartet (with piano) from 1938.

Quartet:


Quintet:


the fun part of the Quintet is that the last movement is identical to the opening mvt, only backwards.
HT
2018-07-19 08:40:33 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
RMCR now lives in a post-SR-apocalyptic period of dystopian wilderness dominated by gangs of
pianophiles, who do on occasion enlighten the heart only when Hiromi and Yuja are mentioned.
Never believed I would be called a member of a gang. I'm sorry to hear that we only occasionally enlighten your heart. It also makes me wonder why you need others to do that. Why not organise your own gang and enlighten my heart on occasion mentioning for example Sibelius and Blomstedt? Or modern jazz pianists with two hands (like Hiromi?). <g>

Henk
Raymond Hall
2018-07-19 12:46:18 UTC
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-Sibelius and Blomstedt? Or modern jazz pianists with two hands (like Hiromi?). <g> 

-Henk 

I am sure you must realise my post wasn't too serious in intent. Anyway, I don't know Blomstedt's Sibelius, being confined merely by Berglund, Barbirolli, Maazel and Colin Davis, HvK, and smatterings of Ormandy, Sakari, and several others.

I very much like Blomstedt's Nielsen (SFSO), however, and his Hindemith twofer. Blomstedt projects strongly, like Szell, if perhaps a bit short on subtlety. I'd go for the impending Szell box were it not for too much duplication.

Hiromi is a dazzling talent, but musically iffy, neither jazz nor classical. But she has pianistic chops to burn, and I would have no hesitation seeing her in concert. Monk and Bill Evans are probably my fave reasonably modern jazz pianists in trio combos. Earlier jazz pianists include Bud Powell and earlier still Jelly Roll Morton.

For Bach it is Gould, Perahia, and probably Schiff, whose masterclasses I really enjoy. De Larrocha in most of her repertoire is a constant. As with Schiff, I also hate pianos being banged ;)

Ray Hall, Taree
Bozo
2018-07-19 13:11:54 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
Monk and Bill Evans are probably my fave reasonably modern jazz pianists in trio combos.
Evans one of my favs, too, Evans, live, 1964 - 1975 :

HT
2018-07-19 15:00:11 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
-Sibelius and Blomstedt? Or modern jazz pianists with two hands (like Hiromi?). <g> 
I am sure you must realise my post wasn't too serious in intent.
Even if it were ...
Post by Raymond Hall
I very much like Blomstedt's Nielsen
Thanks! So it will be Nielsen and Hindemith this summer.
Post by Raymond Hall
Monk and Bill Evans are probably my fave reasonably modern jazz pianists in trio combos. Earlier jazz pianists include Bud Powell and earlier still Jelly Roll Morton.
I'm listening now to Bill Evans.
Post by Raymond Hall
For Bach it is Gould, Perahia, and probably Schiff, whose masterclasses I really enjoy. De Larrocha in most of her repertoire is a constant. As with Schiff, I also hate pianos being banged ;)
I second Gould, at least in Bach. Feltsman's Bach is excellent too, in my opinion. Schiff doesn't even know how to almost bang.

Best regards,
Henk
HT
2018-07-20 12:52:00 UTC
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Post by Raymond Hall
I very much like Blomstedt's Nielsen (SFSO), however, and his Hindemith twofer.
Listened to Blomsted's Hindemith Matthis der Mahler on YT. It's difficult to understand why this composition is less popular than Shostakovich, for example. It's very easy to listen to. Not bipolar enough, as Gould seems to suggest somewhere?

Henk
Herman
2018-07-20 14:19:16 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Raymond Hall
I very much like Blomstedt's Nielsen (SFSO), however, and his Hindemith twofer.
Listened to Blomsted's Hindemith Matthis der Mahler on YT. It's difficult to understand why this composition is less popular than Shostakovich, for example. It's very easy to listen to. Not bipolar enough, as Gould seems to suggest somewhere?
Henk
Hindemith is just a very unpopular composer for maybe such a simple reason as that he wrote too damn much (since the same seems to go for Reger and Milhaud, and let's face it: most of Haydn's work is negrelcted, too).

Hindemith famously composed only for instruments he could play himself, which were most instruments. Among musicians he is a mainstay. His sonatas for viola solo are huge among violists. His two solo violin sonatas (one of 'em with a variation mvt on a Mozart song) are phenomenal. The list of pieces musicians like to play is long; the only problem is you can't program these pieces in a concert, 'cause no one will buy a ticket for Hindemith music.
HT
2018-07-20 19:24:13 UTC
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Post by Herman
Hindemith is just a very unpopular composer for maybe such a simple reason as that he wrote too damn much (since the same seems to go for Reger and Milhaud, and let's face it: most of Haydn's work is negrelcted, too).
Perhaps the difference with Reger and Milhaud is that the quality of their music is very uneven. I've yet to hear a Hindemith I find difficult to listen to. I must try harder. <g>

Henk
MiNe109
2018-07-20 20:11:04 UTC
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Post by HT
Post by Herman
Hindemith is just a very unpopular composer for maybe such a simple
reason as that he wrote too damn much (since the same seems to go
for Reger and Milhaud, and let's face it: most of Haydn's work is
negrelcted, too).
Perhaps the difference with Reger and Milhaud is that the quality of
their music is very uneven. I've yet to hear a Hindemith I find
difficult to listen to. I must try harder. <g>
My undergrad piano teacher disliked the "Boston" from the piano suite!

His wind sonatas have been good to me over the years.

Stephen
HT
2018-07-21 08:15:37 UTC
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It's very difficult to make some sense of 'Boston. Even Richter is plodding:



Either Walker's version is great, imo:



Henk
Bozo
2018-07-20 20:42:53 UTC
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Listened to Blomsted's Hindemith Matthis der Mahler on YT. It's difficult to understand why this composition >is less popular than Shostakovich, for example. It's very easy to listen to. Not bipolar enough, as Gould >seems to suggest somewhere?
I recall fondly a wonderful live performance of " Matthis der Mahler " by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra in the late ' 70's or early 80's in Iowa City, but do not recall the conductor ( was not Masur ), a program that opened with Mozart's Symphony # 39 and after the Pause LvB's 7th. Audience loved the Hindemith.

I am very fond of Hindemith's Piano Sonata # 3 from Gould's recording of all 3 sonatas.
Frank Berger
2018-07-20 21:59:32 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Listened to Blomsted's Hindemith Matthis der Mahler on YT. It's difficult to understand why this composition >is less popular than Shostakovich, for example. It's very easy to listen to. Not bipolar enough, as Gould >seems to suggest somewhere?
I recall fondly a wonderful live performance of " Matthis der Mahler " by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra in the late ' 70's or early 80's in Iowa City, but do not recall the conductor ( was not Masur ), a program that opened with Mozart's Symphony # 39 and after the Pause LvB's 7th. Audience loved the Hindemith.
I am very fond of Hindemith's Piano Sonata # 3 from Gould's recording of all 3 sonatas.
Are you familiar with recordings of #3 by Cherkassky, Wild or Yudina?
Those are the ones I have. I've not hear #s 1 nor 2. Several Amazon
reviewers (FWIW) trashed Gould's performances as uncharacteristic or
wayward or something like that, but failed to recommend alternatives.
Raymond Hall
2018-07-21 00:32:42 UTC
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/10484549/Paul-Hindemith-The-20th-centurys-most-neglected-composer.html

The above link gives a short but excellent review of Hindemith the composer. His music is not played enough imho. His favourite instrument was the viola. Also composed much music for amateurs.

Ray Hall, Taree
HT
2018-07-21 08:47:49 UTC
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Ray, thanks for the link - and for mentioning Hindemith!

Henk
Bozo
2018-07-21 12:52:18 UTC
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Young Glenn Gould discusses , and then plays, the concluding fugue of Hindemith's 3rd Piano Sonata, per Gould Hindemith " a fugist to the manner born ". Video:


Bozo
2018-07-21 13:35:39 UTC
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Post by Bozo
Young Glenn Gould discusses , and then plays, the concluding fugue
Andre Previn was also attracted to Hindemith’s 3rd Sonata , recording ca. 1961 for Columbia :



Bozo
2018-07-21 01:29:51 UTC
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Several Amazon reviewers (FWIW) trashed Gould's performances as >uncharacteristic > or wayward or something like that, but failed to recommend >alternatives.
I have both the Gould and Yudina. Thanks for your suggestion of Cherkassky ( live,Wigmore Hall , when ? ) and Wild ( studio 1947 ? ) , both of which I heard at YT. The Gould 3rd is also at YT with Sonatas Nos.1,2:



My impression is Cherkassky,Yudina the more “Romantic” ; Gould the more “ Neo-Classical “ ; Wild somewhere in between ; although such labeling is probably worthless. I have no score, nor of course know what Hindemith would prefer. For me, the Gould is by far the most attractive, satisfying, especially in the 3rd mov., and hardly wayward as the Amazon reviewers suggested; none of the 4 deserve such criticism. Would suggest you give Gould a hearing at YT.
weary flake
2018-07-19 01:14:01 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Just wondering. He was one of my favorite posters, gone now for several
years. I always respected his opinions and choices in music. I miss
him. Anyone know what happened to him?
I remember he mentioned Albrectsberger's Conertos for Jew's Harp on Orfeo,
and his judgement was negative but his mentioning of it and his description
made me want to get it, as I never heard of it, and was pleased with my
purchase.

Here 'tis from 21 Aug 2003, in a thread about Composers that start with
the letter "A":

Since everyone else has made responsible suggestions, it's probably safe for me
to suggest that, if you want to hear something quite funny (to what extent this
is intentional I'm not quite sure), you try the recording on Orfeo of
Albrechtsberger's concerto for jew's harp, which features not only bad
music for
a weird-sounding instrument (it sounds weird to me, at any rate) but really
awful conducting - the orchestral opening of the first movement could be a
text-book example of how not to play (phrase, shape, etc.) music of
this period.
Hilarious, until boredom sets in.
Then there's all that stuff by Anon.
Simon
Matthew Silverstein
2018-07-20 14:34:44 UTC
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Post by MIFrost
Anyone know what happened to him?
I'll be seeing him in a week or so. I'll let him know that RMCR misses him.

Matty
O
2018-07-25 15:32:47 UTC
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Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by MIFrost
Anyone know what happened to him?
I'll be seeing him in a week or so. I'll let him know that RMCR misses him.
Tell him it's not as bad as it was when he left.

There's been much more musical discussion here than personal invective
for a long time.

-Owen
m***@gmail.com
2018-07-26 10:21:24 UTC
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Post by O
Post by Matthew Silverstein
Post by MIFrost
Anyone know what happened to him?
I'll be seeing him in a week or so. I'll let him know that RMCR misses him.
Tell him it's not as bad as it was when he left.
There's been much more musical discussion here than personal invective
for a long time.
-Owen
Isn't that because Deacon is gone

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