Discussion:
OT- The Election-2 views
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Bozo
2016-11-09 23:14:34 UTC
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Raw Message
First, from Garrison Keillor of PBS' " Prairie Home Companion" fame :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-voters-will-not-like-what-happens-next/2016/11/09/e346ffc2-a67f-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html


"So he won. The nation takes a deep breath. Raw ego and proud illiteracy have won out, and a severely learning-disabled man with a real character problem will be president. We are so exhausted from thinking about this election, millions of people will take up leaf-raking and garage cleaning with intense pleasure. We liberal elitists are wrecks. The Trumpers had a whale of a good time, waving their signs, jeering at the media, beating up protesters, chanting “Lock her up” — we elitists just stood and clapped. Nobody chanted “Stronger Together.” It just doesn’t chant.

The Trumpers never expected their guy to actually win the thing, and that’s their problem now. They wanted only to whoop and yell, boo at the H-word, wear profane T-shirts, maybe grab a crotch or two, jump in the RV with a couple six-packs and go out and shoot some spotted owls. It was pleasure enough for them just to know that they were driving us wild with dismay — by “us,” I mean librarians, children’s authors, yoga practitioners, Unitarians, bird-watchers, people who make their own pasta, opera goers, the grammar police, people who keep books on their shelves, that bunch. The Trumpers exulted in knowing we were tearing our hair out. They had our number, like a bratty kid who knows exactly how to make you grit your teeth and froth at the mouth.

Alas for the Trump voters, the disasters he will bring on this country will fall more heavily on them than anyone else. The uneducated white males who elected him are the vulnerable ones, and they will not like what happens next.

To all the patronizing B.S. we’ve read about Trump expressing the white working -class’s displacement and loss of the American Dream, I say, “Feh!” — go put your head under cold water. Resentment is no excuse for bald-faced stupidity. America is still the land where the waitress’ kids can grow up to become physicists and novelists and pediatricians, but it helps a lot if the waitress and her husband encourage good habits and the ambition to use your God-given talents and the kids aren’t plugged into electronics day and night. Whooping it up for the candidate of cruelty and ignorance does less than nothing for your kids.

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids, and we Democrats can go for a long , brisk walk and smell the roses.

I like Republicans. I used to spend Sunday afternoons with a bunch of them, drinking Scotch and soda and trying to care about NFL football. It was fun. I tried to think like them. (Life is what you make it. People are people. When the going gets tough, tough noogies.) But I came back to liberal elitism.

Don’t be cruel. Elvis said it, and it’s true. We all experienced cruelty back in our playground days — boys who beat up on the timid, girls who made fun of the homely and naive — and most of us, to our shame, went along with it, afraid to defend the victims lest we become one of them. But by your 20s, you should be done with cruelty. Mr. Trump was the cruelest candidate since George Wallace. How he won on fear and bile is for political pathologists to study. The country is already tired of his noise, even his own voters. He is likely to become the most intensely disliked president since Hoover. His children will carry the burden of his name. He will never be happy in his own skin. But the damage he will do to our country — who knows? His supporters voted for change, and boy, are they going to get it.

Back to real life. I went up to my home town the other day and ran into my gym teacher, Stan Nelson, looking good at 96. He commanded a landing craft at Normandy on June 6, 1944, and never said a word about it back then, just made us do chin-ups whether we wanted to or not. I saw my biology teacher Lyle Bradley, a Marine pilot in the Korean War, still going bird-watching in his 90s. I was not a good student then, but I am studying both of them now. They have seen it all and are still optimistic. The past year of politics has taught us absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. The future is scary. Let the uneducated have their day. I am now going to pay more attention to the teachers." Copyright Washington Post 2016

Finally, from the Observer ( ironically owned by Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner ) :

http://observer.com/2016/11/what-the-hell-just-happened-a-look-back-at-the-2016-election-cycle/
Terry
2016-11-10 04:54:04 UTC
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Read all the way to the bottom

"He's been divorced and remarried. He can't commit to anything."
"He's dangerously ignorant about international affairs. The Russian leaders will walk all over him."
"He has no filter doesn't think before he speaks.”
"Until recently, he was a Democrat. He's not a real Republican. He hasn't paid his GOP dues."
"He used to be Pro Choice. Now, suddenly he's Pro Life?"
"That can't be his real hair!"
"He's a loose cannon. No one wants HIS finger on the nuclear button."
"His opponent has the experience and political savvy to be president. He does not."
"He's just not presidential."
"His temperament disqualifies him from ever being Commander-In-Chief."
"He's proven himself to be mentally unstable."
"The military will never accept him as Commander-In-Chief. He's not smart enough."
"The GOP doesn't want him to be the head of the party. He could never reach across the aisle to get anything done."
"Most Republican voters will just stay home rather than go out and vote for him."
"Evangelicals will never support him."
"He says '(Lets) Make America Great Again'. How dare he say we aren't still great?"
"His intellect is thinner than spit on a slate rock.
"After all his gaffs, he doubles down on them instead of admitting he made a mistake."
"He's threatening to upend our treaties and relationships with our allies by demanding that they pay for their own defense!"
"Because of his gross factual errors he might take rash action and needlessly lead this country into open warfare!"
"He's racist, xenophobic, and fuels the fires of hatred!"
"The rising turnout of his voters are not loyal Republicans or Democrats and are alienated from both parties because neither takes a sympathetic view toward their issues.
"The fact that he could be deemed a serious candidate for president is a shame and embarrassment for the country.
"Is he Safe? ...he shoots from the hip ... he's over his head ... What are his solutions?
"Voters want to follow some authority figure, a leader who can take charge with authority; return a sense of discipline to our government; and, manifest the willpower needed to get this country back on track -- Or at least a leader from outside Washington,”


*******************************

Sound familiar? You've heard this all about Donald Trump, right?
Try Again. All this was said of Ronald Reagan in 1976 and 1980. Most of it was BY OTHER REPUBLICANS.
Oscar
2016-11-10 05:28:52 UTC
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Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
dk
2016-11-10 06:06:17 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.

dk
O
2016-11-10 15:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of good things, but is only
remembered for the bad?

All Presidents make lots of mistakes. Nobody can make correct decisions
all the time, and some of the bad decisions have been erased or reduced
by history and/or popular opinion (e.g. the Bay of Pigs, Johnson's
Billie Sol Estes scandal).

One thing Reagan did have was a great rhetorical power. He made
Americans feel good about themselves, he was clear and plainspoken, and
he was able to project emotions to his listeners. The advantage of
this talent is immeasurable when it comes to leadership.

-Owen
dk
2016-11-10 16:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!

dk
O
2016-11-10 17:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?! You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!

-Owen
dk
2016-11-10 18:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily.
Platinum would also do! ;-)
Post by O
You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all.
Just pragmatic. A reliable
monetary system has to be
based on a reference that
cannot be manipulated like
printed paper. That is all.

dk
O
2016-11-10 19:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily.
Platinum would also do! ;-)
Post by O
You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all.
Just pragmatic. A reliable
monetary system has to be
based on a reference that
cannot be manipulated like
printed paper. That is all.
Except Richard Nixon realized back then that there wasn't enough gold
in Fort Knox, etc. to cover all the paper money printed. In fact, no
paper money in the world issued by a government backs it 100% in gold.
You could always move to Lebanon or Mongolia, to get the most stable
currency, If one just judged currency by how much of it was backed by
precious metals.

-Owen
Tony
2016-11-10 20:28:01 UTC
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Post by O
Except Richard Nixon realized back then that there wasn't enough gold
in Fort Knox, etc. to cover all the paper money printed. In fact, no
paper money in the world issued by a government backs it 100% in gold.
That's incorrect. There is always enough gold, the matter of covering only depends at what price it's set at. FDR hiked the price of gold from $20 to $35 so he could increase dollar supply. Nixon removed the final constraint. Check out a chart of the overall collapse of the dollar since '71 and the horrific fall in living standards since then. We view women joining the work force as a beautiful thing--in more ways than one--but it's also a sign of the fall in purchasing power and living standards that we now need 2+ people working to sustain a household.
dk
2016-11-10 20:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony
Post by O
Except Richard Nixon realized back then that there wasn't enough gold
in Fort Knox, etc. to cover all the paper money printed. In fact, no
paper money in the world issued by a government backs it 100% in gold.
That's incorrect. There is always enough gold, the matter of covering
only depends at what price it's set at. FDR hiked the price of gold
from $20 to $35 so he could increase dollar supply. Nixon removed the
final constraint. Check out a chart of the overall collapse of the
dollar since '71 and the horrific fall in living standards since
then. We view women joining the work force as a beautiful thing--
in more ways than one--but it's also a sign of the fall in purchasing
power and living standards that we now need 2+ people working to
sustain a household.
No one should have to work to sustain a
household. Just look at Donald Trump! ;-)

dk
dk
2016-11-10 20:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily.
Platinum would also do! ;-)
Post by O
You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all.
Just pragmatic. A reliable
monetary system has to be
based on a reference that
cannot be manipulated like
printed paper. That is all.
Except Richard Nixon realized back
then that there wasn't enough gold
in Fort Knox, etc. to cover all the
paper money printed.
Not so fast, the facts are a little
more complicated. The US was running
out of gold having depleted its gold
ore resources, while Russia, Canada
and South Africa were sitting on
apparently inexhaustible piles of
gold. This could have given them
the ability to control/manipulate
the US dollar had they wanted to
act in a hostile manner. This is
the real reason Nixon unilaterally
revoked the Bretton-Woods accord,
not the amount of gold actually
held in Fort Knox at the time.

dk
O
2016-11-10 20:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Not so fast, the facts are a little
more complicated. The US was running
out of gold having depleted its gold
ore resources, while Russia, Canada
and South Africa were sitting on
apparently inexhaustible piles of
gold. This could have given them
the ability to control/manipulate
the US dollar had they wanted to
act in a hostile manner. This is
the real reason Nixon unilaterally
revoked the Bretton-Woods accord,
not the amount of gold actually
held in Fort Knox at the time.
Interesting.... So what should Nixon have done, given the threats
you've alluded to?

-Owen
dk
2016-11-10 20:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by O
Post by dk
Not so fast, the facts are a little
more complicated. The US was running
out of gold having depleted its gold
ore resources, while Russia, Canada
and South Africa were sitting on
apparently inexhaustible piles of
gold. This could have given them
the ability to control/manipulate
the US dollar had they wanted to
act in a hostile manner. This is
the real reason Nixon unilaterally
revoked the Bretton-Woods accord,
not the amount of gold actually
held in Fort Knox at the time.
Interesting.... So what should Nixon
have done, given the threats you've
alluded to?
Obviously, annex Canada! ;-)

dk
Frank Berger
2016-11-10 21:26:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily.
Platinum would also do! ;-)
Post by O
You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all.
Just pragmatic. A reliable
monetary system has to be
based on a reference that
cannot be manipulated like
printed paper. That is all.
dk
The classical objection to the gold standard is that the
inability to find new gold could hinder the ability of the
economy to grow. I don't know how to compare this risk with
that of the government debasing a fiat currency in order to
get more purchasing power for itself.
dk
2016-11-10 22:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by O
Post by dk
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A
lot of it however was just appearing to
be presidential. A closer look at his
presidency reveals that he made lots
of mistakes in many areas. There is
an unfortunate tendency in the US
to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily.
Platinum would also do! ;-)
Post by O
You're even more conservative
than I could have ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all.
Just pragmatic. A reliable
monetary system has to be
based on a reference that
cannot be manipulated like
printed paper. That is all.
The classical objection to the gold standard is that the
inability to find new gold could hinder the ability of the
economy to grow. I don't know how to compare this risk with
that of the government debasing a fiat currency in order to
get more purchasing power for itself.
Yes we all know that. And we all know what happens
when one moves to fiat money. Take your pick.

dk
Frank Berger
2016-11-11 01:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 1:26:34 PM UTC-8, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 9:17:27 AM UTC-8, O
In article
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 7:13:19 AM
In article
On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:28:54 PM
Post by Oscar
Ronald Wilson Reagan: greatest president
since FDR (whom he voted for four times).
Reagan acted the presidency very well. A lot
of it however was just appearing to be
presidential. A closer look at his presidency
reveals that he made lots of mistakes in many
areas. There is an unfortunate tendency in
the US to make all past presidents look
better than they really were.
As opposed to Richard Nixon, who did a lot of
good things, but is only remembered for the
bad?
Because the bad things Nixon did were enormously
bad and had consequences that are still haunting
us today -- like the cancellation of the Bretton
Woods agreement and revoking the gold standard.
This is one of the reasons America is no longer
"great"!
Wow, dk, you want to go back to gold?!
Not necessarily. Platinum would also do! ;-)
You're even more conservative than I could have
ever imagined!
I am not conservative at all. Just pragmatic. A
reliable monetary system has to be based on a
reference that cannot be manipulated like printed
paper. That is all.
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the ability
of the economy to grow. I don't know how to compare
this risk with that of the government debasing a fiat
currency in order to get more purchasing power for
itself.
Yes we all know that. And we all know what happens when
one moves to fiat money. Take your pick.
dk
Well we do have a largely independent (thank God) monetary
authority, that unfortunately (IMO) has a dual mandate of
limiting inflation while also limiting unemployment.
Tony
2016-11-10 22:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that the
inability to find new gold could hinder the ability of the
economy to grow. I don't know how to compare this risk with
that of the government debasing a fiat currency in order to
get more purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored. Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the US wants to suddenly import inflation.

Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in some ways, but at some point I think he'll have a problem related to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know much about bonds, but already they are selling off hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident that later this decade we will see a marked decline in dollar value, something like a reckoning point of years of debt and easing and past failure to spend wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony. Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions and policies meet though.

If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his fault as it's something that's been long-building over decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
dk
2016-11-11 00:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that the
inability to find new gold could hinder the ability of the
economy to grow. I don't know how to compare this risk with
that of the government debasing a fiat currency in order to
get more purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your own mining
is not necessary for the furtherance of credit if you simply
revalue the price of gold. It is a way of devaluing, and in
FDR's time it simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be
stored. Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the US wants
to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Post by Tony
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
Post by Tony
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related to a fall
in the value of the dollar. I don't know much about bonds, but
already they are selling off hard. It might not be a funding
crisis per se as there can always be further easing, but I'm
pretty confident that later this decade we will see a marked
decline in dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend wisely on
things like infrastructure. You sometimes hear this sort of
warning from a gold-storing loony. Actually you get the sense
they are hoping for it. It does have a base in sound reasoning
when the conditions and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain faster
than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's? China's?
Post by Tony
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on the poor
orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his fault as it's
something that's been long-building over decades. He would
just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things that
cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in the meaning
he seems to imply simply because it no longer has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over the
rest of the world, as was the case between roughly 1930 and
1970. This is not fixable.

dk
Bozo
2016-11-11 01:06:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by dk
This is not fixable.
Thus my comment in an parallel thread here :

America has not been great for many years , since the Eisenhower years in fact, with a few exceptions. Myopic, exclusionary, fearing fear itself,self-centered hubris and hedonism , no great men as in 1776 . We have become a Country of Ted Nugents rather than Bernie Sanders.

The real question is whether the World can be made great . The answer will depend on more than the USA, no Marshall Plan this time.
Frank Berger
2016-11-11 01:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
dk
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 06:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
dk
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country solves/prevents problems rather than creates them.

And a great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
dk
2016-11-11 06:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country
solves/prevents problems rather than creates them. And a
great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
Please show us one.

dk
Frank Berger
2016-11-11 12:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country
solves/prevents problems rather than creates them. And a
great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
Please show us one.
dk
A tyrant can create order.
w***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 13:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country
solves/prevents problems rather than creates them. And a
great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
Please show us one.
dk
A tyrant can create order.
Hitler sure did
Frank Berger
2016-11-11 13:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by w***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country
solves/prevents problems rather than creates them. And a
great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
Please show us one.
dk
A tyrant can create order.
Hitler sure did
Well that's a good point. Maybe only in the short run.
Herman
2016-11-11 14:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 18:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I am certainly no admirer of Hitler, but part of the problem of U.S. foreign policy makers is that:

- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),

- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)

Didn't the rise of Hitler have to do with the Weimar gov't not being responsive enough to the needs of the 'deplorables'?
Herman
2016-11-11 18:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.

The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
dk
2016-11-11 18:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 18:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
dk
- ...Military force--especially when wielded by an outside power--cannot bring order in a country that cannot govern itself.

Robert McNamara
dk
2016-11-11 19:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
- ...Military force--especially when wielded by
an outside power--cannot bring order in a country
that cannot govern itself.
Robert McNamara
Not advocating, just explaining. And
McNamara was the first to break his
own principles.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-12 06:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
dk
Aren't the Chinese propping up N. Korea?
dk
2016-11-12 06:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
Aren't the Chinese propping up N. Korea?
Hard to tell. They certainly did initially.
Right now the N Korean regime appears to be
completely out of control. More likely the
Chinese are keeping it on life support just
to avoid mass famine and destruction.

dk
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-12 06:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
dk
If we didn't live in such a Machiavellian world, the U.S. wouldn't have to jump on the bandwagon:

- ...If you always want to play the good man in a world where most people are not good, you'll end up badly.

"The Prince"
dk
2016-11-12 06:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
If we didn't live in such a Machiavellian world,
What else is new?
What else is new?
Post by g***@gmail.com
- ...If you always want to play the good man in
a world where most people are not good, you'll
end up badly.
What else is new?

dk
graham
2016-11-12 14:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
If we didn't live in such a Machiavellian world,
What else is new?
Well Machiavelli was alive and kicking in Washington over the last
few months. The trouble was he couldn't deal with a Savonarola.
dk
2016-11-12 19:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by graham
Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by dk
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Simply because if the US had not done that,
the Russians, or the Chinese, would have
propped them up. Unfortunately some things
can be zero sum games.
If we didn't live in such a Machiavellian world,
What else is new?
Well Machiavelli was alive and kicking in Washington over the last
few months. The trouble was he couldn't deal with a Savonarola.
Machiavelli and Savonarola have been alive and kicking
everywhere for as long as one can remember. They own
villas and palaces all over the world ;-)

dk
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 18:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
...After getting rid of (e.g., assasinations, promotion of coups) legitimate leaders.

Isn't "backing the wrong horse" something which American foreign policy inherited from the Brits?:

- Conway was thirty-seven. He had been at Baskul for two years, in a job which now, in the light of events, could be regarded as a persistent backing of the wrong horse.

"Lost Horizon" (1933,Hilton)
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-12 06:47:41 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
...After getting rid of (e.g., assasinations, promotion of coups) legitimate leaders.
Have you ever heard of the CIA?:

https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-29 22:29:53 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
...After getting rid of (e.g., assasinations, promotion of coups) legitimate leaders.
- Conway was thirty-seven. He had been at Baskul for two years, in a job which now, in the light of events, could be regarded as a persistent backing of the wrong horse.
"Lost Horizon" (1933,Hilton)
Backing the wrong horse is still going on--this time in Syria:

- In short, the groups that the United States is funneling arms, money, and weapons to work directly, hand-in-hand, with alQaeda.

https://www.google.com/#q=%22in+short%2C+the+groups+that+the+United+States%22
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-29 23:13:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
...After getting rid of (e.g., assasinations, promotion of coups) legitimate leaders.
- Conway was thirty-seven. He had been at Baskul for two years, in a job which now, in the light of events, could be regarded as a persistent backing of the wrong horse.
"Lost Horizon" (1933,Hilton)
- In short, the groups that the United States is funneling arms, money, and weapons to work directly, hand-in-hand, with alQaeda.
https://www.google.com/#q=%22in+short%2C+the+groups+that+the+United+States%22
According to the following recent article:

- People are not afraid to say this anymore. It is so obviously the right thing to do and unfortunately I will say it again, the United States must never put boots on the ground in the Middle East.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/02/19/451215/US-Syria-airstrike-Russia-Daesh-Assad-Middle-East
g***@gmail.com
2017-02-10 07:15:23 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
...After getting rid of (e.g., assasinations, promotion of coups) legitimate leaders.
- Conway was thirty-seven. He had been at Baskul for two years, in a job which now, in the light of events, could be regarded as a persistent backing of the wrong horse.
"Lost Horizon" (1933,Hilton)
According to this article:

- What seems most painful to those with any real knowledge of the region is the apparent unwillingness of those in power in Washington to accept that in this vast region of the world the United States is wittingly or unwittingly stepping into the boots of earlier imperial powers, and that this cannot under any circumstances by a good thing and cannot possibly be “done right.”

https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/publications/archive/to_be_read/5018.html
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-14 10:13:50 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
- American decision-makers must understand how damaging a foreign policy that privileges order and profit over justice really is in the long term.

Samantha Power
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 05:31:19 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
OMG the ignorance.
The US has spent decades propping up banana republic dictators.
Isn't that usually after the U.S. has instigated regime change? According to the Syrians:

- ...The regime change war the U.S. is fueling in Syria does not serve America’s interest, or the interest of the Syrian people.

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/in-the-news/op-ed-us-must-stop-helping-terrorists-fighting-syria-s-government
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-11 18:27:03 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
Didn't the rise of Hitler have to do with the Weimar gov't not being responsive enough to the needs of the 'deplorables'?
Although we here are all for the arts, the glorification of the arts during the Weimar period should never distract from the voices of the 'deplorables' who finally spoke out in 1933 and 2016.
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-12 19:31:09 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
Didn't the rise of Hitler have to do with the Weimar gov't not being responsive enough to the needs of the 'deplorables'?
Although we here are all for the arts, the glorification of the arts during the Weimar period should never distract from the voices of the 'deplorables' who finally spoke out in 1933 and 2016.
To paraphrase a former American president, could the 2016 deplorables have 'misoverestimated' what Trump can really do for them?:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy/2016/1111/Can-Trump-live-up-to-his-promises-to-coal-country
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-12 06:21:15 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
Didn't the rise of Hitler have to do with the Weimar gov't not being responsive enough to the needs of the 'deplorables'?
According to this recent article:

- Fascism, as historian Gaetano Salvemini pointed out, is about “giving up free institutions.” It is the product of a democracy that has ceased to function. The democratic form will remain, much as it did during the dictatorships in the later part of the Roman Empire, but the reality is despotism, or in our case, corporate despotism. The citizen does not genuinely participate in power.

"It is very similar to late Weimar Germany,” Noam Chomsky told me with uncanny insight when I spoke with him six years ago. “The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_worse_than_you_think_20161111
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-18 00:55:48 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
"Saddam Hussein should have been left to run Iraq, says CIA officer who interrogated him" (recent article):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-18 03:51:56 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
- The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so.

Gore Vidal
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-19 05:50:15 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
"Is the U.S. doing more harm or good in the Middle East?" (recent tv
debate):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/point-taken/is-us-doing-more-harm-good-
middle-east/#watch
dk
2016-12-22 06:36:53 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
"Is the U.S. doing more harm or good in the Middle East?" (recent tv
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/point-taken/is-us-doing-more-harm-good-
middle-east/#watch
Is anyone other nation doing "good" in the Middle East?

dk
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-22 08:12:38 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
"Is the U.S. doing more harm or good in the Middle East?" (recent tv
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/point-taken/is-us-doing-more-harm-good-
middle-east/#watch
Is anyone other nation doing "good" in the Middle East?
dk
"The High Cost of Vladimir Putin’s Adventurism in the Middle East" (recent article):

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/164691#sthash.hCSBvz6V.dpuf
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-25 06:06:46 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/16/saddam-hussein-should-have-been-left-to-run-iraq-says-cia-officer-who-interrogated-him/?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.84940c264e16
"Is the U.S. doing more harm or good in the Middle East?" (recent tv
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/point-taken/is-us-doing-more-harm-good-
middle-east/#watch
Is anyone other nation doing "good" in the Middle East?
dk
- It has always been true that the men who were defending Western ideals were bound to be in alliance with men who intended to defend only Western interests.

Butterfield
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-26 09:39:06 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)...
Concerning Trump's recent controversial appointments, couldn't U.S. foreign policy be portrayed as follows?:

Loading Image...
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-29 08:09:55 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)...
According to this recent article:

- We must end our war to overthrow the Syrian government and focus our attention on defeating al-Qaeda and ISIS.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-why-is-the-us-helping-al-qaeda-and-other-terrorist-groups-rep-tulsi-gabbard/5571358
g***@gmail.com
2017-02-04 06:54:31 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)...
According to this recent article:

- These same pro-war pundits that push for further intervention in Syria did the same thing when they manufactured consent for regime change in Iraq and Libya. By citing the corruption and humans rights abuses of those countries’ dictators, they helped manipulate popular consensus into supporting the toppling of those governments, which has in turn created more chaos in the Middle East and provided a haven for terrorist groups to thrive.

http://observer.com/2017/02/war-hawks-push-intervention-syria-tulsi-gabbard/
g***@gmail.com
2017-02-04 07:06:22 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)...
- These same pro-war pundits that push for further intervention in Syria did the same thing when they manufactured consent for regime change in Iraq and Libya. By citing the corruption and humans rights abuses of those countries’ dictators, they helped manipulate popular consensus into supporting the toppling of those governments, which has in turn created more chaos in the Middle East and provided a haven for terrorist groups to thrive.
http://observer.com/2017/02/war-hawks-push-intervention-syria-tulsi-gabbard/
- More men hurt others they do not know why than for any reason.

Halifax
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-29 07:58:44 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
- Everything is sacrificed to American interests.

According to this recent article:

- ...When interests triumph over values terrible things can happen

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JiidJP3xyeIJ:www.economist.com/news/leaders/21711903-when-interests-triumph-over-values-terrible-things-can-happen-lessons-aleppos-tragic+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 05:47:51 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy. (Wouldn't the Syrians agree with that?),
- Although Americans HATE tyrants and dictators with a vengeance, SOMETIMES the best way to bring about total anarchy is to automatically put a bulls-eye on the back of a tyrant or dictator. (Wouldn't the Iraqis agree with that?)
According to this recent article:

- Although opposed to the Assad government, the political opposition leaders adamantly rejected violence as a way to bring about reforms. They shared that it’s the Wahhabi jihadists, fueled by foreign governments, that pose the greatest threat to Syria and its history as a secular, pluralist, once-peaceful society. They continue to seek government reforms, but support the Syrian state over jihadist terrorist groups as they work to bring peace to Syria.

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/in-the-news/op-ed-us-must-stop-helping-terrorists-fighting-syria-s-government
g***@gmail.com
2017-02-02 08:59:02 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- They can't seem to understand that the worst case scenario for a country is total anarchy...
According to this recent article:

- Some on the left worry we are seeing the rise of fascism, a new authoritarian age. That gets things exactly backward. The real fear in the Trump era should be that everything will become disorganized, chaotic, degenerate, clownish and incompetent.

https://www.news-journal.com/news/2017/jan/21/brooks-the-internal-invasion/
g***@gmail.com
2016-11-18 18:27:55 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
r***@gmail.com
2016-11-18 23:37:18 UTC
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I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
This is correct. The Balfour Declaration promising a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine, should Britain win WW1, was intended to persuade the New York Jewish bankers from pressuring the US to enter WW1 on the German side. These banking firms were also bankers to the German and Austrian governments.
AntiSemitism had been whipped up for nationalist reasons in 19th century Hapsburg empire elections to divert attention from the original targets of unrest.
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-10 09:56:21 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
According to the following recent article:

- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
laraine
2016-12-20 18:41:57 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
an idea of what might happen after such an election these days:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d

Sounds awful for some, good for others.

C.
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2016-12-22 07:54:14 UTC
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Post by laraine
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
Isn't this a rejection of modernity?:

- Sciences more generally would receive less time, in favor of more hours for Polish history.
laraine
2016-12-23 02:43:08 UTC
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Post by laraine
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
- Sciences more generally would receive less time, in favor of more hours for Polish history.
"Polish scientists are aghast at proposed curriculum changes in a new education bill that would downplay evolution theory and climate change and add hours for “patriotic” history lessons. In a Facebook chat, a top equal rights official mused that Polish hotels should not be forced to provide service to black or gay customers. After the official stepped down for unrelated reasons, his successor rejected an international convention to combat violence against women because it appeared to argue against traditional gender roles.
Over the weekend, Warsaw convulsed in street protests amid allegations that the Law and Justice party had illegally forced through a budget bill even as it sought to restrict media access to Parliament."
Though I do believe in balance, that leaves one a bit speechless.
Hopefully civil rights are entrenched in a stable enough way to offset it.

C.
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-23 03:45:29 UTC
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Post by laraine
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Post by laraine
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
- Sciences more generally would receive less time, in favor of more hours for Polish history.
"Polish scientists are aghast at proposed curriculum changes in a new education bill that would downplay evolution theory and climate change and add hours for “patriotic” history lessons. In a Facebook chat, a top equal rights official mused that Polish hotels should not be forced to provide service to black or gay customers. After the official stepped down for unrelated reasons, his successor rejected an international convention to combat violence against women because it appeared to argue against traditional gender roles.
Over the weekend, Warsaw convulsed in street protests amid allegations that the Law and Justice party had illegally forced through a budget bill even as it sought to restrict media access to Parliament."
Though I do believe in balance, that leaves one a bit speechless.
Hopefully civil rights are entrenched in a stable enough way to offset it.
C.
As far as I am concerned, that is what happens when rather than work for the system, people come to feel that are now free to try to get the system to work for themselves.

That is why a strong leader who never loses sight of the long term common good is indispensable.
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-23 06:24:17 UTC
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Post by laraine
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by laraine
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
- Sciences more generally would receive less time, in favor of more hours for Polish history.
"Polish scientists are aghast at proposed curriculum changes in a new education bill that would downplay evolution theory and climate change and add hours for “patriotic” history lessons. In a Facebook chat, a top equal rights official mused that Polish hotels should not be forced to provide service to black or gay customers. After the official stepped down for unrelated reasons, his successor rejected an international convention to combat violence against women because it appeared to argue against traditional gender roles.
Over the weekend, Warsaw convulsed in street protests amid allegations that the Law and Justice party had illegally forced through a budget bill even as it sought to restrict media access to Parliament."
Though I do believe in balance, that leaves one a bit speechless.
Hopefully civil rights are entrenched in a stable enough way to offset it.
C.
As far as I am concerned, that is what happens when rather than work for the system, people come to feel that are now free to try to get the system to work for themselves.
That is why a strong leader who never loses sight of the long term common good is indispensable.
According to this recent article:

- ...When looking for the roots of modern western political thought, one cannot escape its authoritarian beginnings. Thomas Hobbes was the first philosopher to describe the Social Contract...

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/06/13/chinese-hobbes-xi-jinpings-favorite-philosopher/
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-23 03:56:08 UTC
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Post by laraine
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by laraine
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
- Sciences more generally would receive less time, in favor of more hours for Polish history.
"Polish scientists are aghast at proposed curriculum changes in a new education bill that would downplay evolution theory and climate change and add hours for “patriotic” history lessons. In a Facebook chat, a top equal rights official mused that Polish hotels should not be forced to provide service to black or gay customers. After the official stepped down for unrelated reasons, his successor rejected an international convention to combat violence against women because it appeared to argue against traditional gender roles.
Over the weekend, Warsaw convulsed in street protests amid allegations that the Law and Justice party had illegally forced through a budget bill even as it sought to restrict media access to Parliament."
Though I do believe in balance, that leaves one a bit speechless.
Hopefully civil rights are entrenched in a stable enough way to offset it.
C.
When it comes to populism, just remember:

- Television is the first truly democratic culture--the first culture available to everybody and entirely governed by what the people want. The most terrifying thing is what people do want.

Clive Barnes
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-22 09:36:42 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
As far as I am concerned, the problem with the present situation in Poland is that there is no authority with the responsibility of thinking in terms of the long term common good.

Without such a person who can impose his will, the battle between varying interests will only intensify.
g***@gmail.com
2016-12-22 09:45:26 UTC
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Post by laraine
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
- ...Freud, who lived in turn-of-the-century Vienna while demagogues were scapegoating Jews and liberals for the mass suffering inflicted by industrial capitalism...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/08/welcome-age-anger-brexit-trump
I just saw this article about the populism now in Poland --one can get
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-poland-a-window-on-what-happens-when-populists-come-to-power/2016/12/18/083577e8-c203-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop&utm_term=.c20b25115f2d
Sounds awful for some, good for others.
C.
As far as I am concerned, the problem with the present situation in Poland is that there is no authority with the responsibility of thinking in terms of the long term common good.
Without such a person who can impose his will, the battle between varying interests will only intensify.
- During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that conditions called war; and such a war, as if of every man, against every man.

Thomas Hobbes ("Leviathan")
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-25 09:07:33 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
According to this recent article:

- It was not, as is usually assumed, the pressure exerted by the National Socialist terror that brought regression, neutralization, and a funereal silence to the arts, for these phenomena had already taken shape in the Weimar Republic, and in liberal continental European society generally.

http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-baton-and-the-jackboot/
g***@gmail.com
2017-03-07 17:28:36 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
Concerning the anti-Semitism that existed before World War I:

- Delving into Mahler’s final years in New York, after the composer had left Vienna, where his daughter died and where anti-Semitism was growing...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/books/henry-louis-de-la-grange-dead-mahler-biographer.html?_r=0
g***@gmail.com
2017-03-19 09:49:33 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
I have a vague recollection of having read that although anti-Semitism existed before World War I when Europe was composed of imperial governments, it became worse after WWI under the various newly created democratic governments which is a reason why Reiner left Europe (early 1920's) when he did.
If there is a recipe for creating stable and orderly societies, did the imperial governments provide the necessary ingredient?:

- Salt is the policeman of taste: it keeps the various flavors of a dish in order and restrains the stronger from tyrannizing over the weaker.

Malcolm de Chazal
dk
2017-03-19 21:38:01 UTC
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If there is a recipe for creating stable and orderly
societies, did the imperial governments provide the
"Stable" and "orderly" do not guarantee freedom in any
degree.
Post by g***@gmail.com
- Salt is the policeman of taste: it keeps the various
flavors of a dish in order and restrains the stronger
from tyrannizing over the weaker.
Salt can also easily destroy the taste of dishes, and
make them all taste pretty much the same -- salty!

dk
g***@gmail.com
2017-03-20 00:54:24 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
If there is a recipe for creating stable and orderly
societies, did the imperial governments provide the
"Stable" and "orderly" do not guarantee freedom in any
degree.
Post by g***@gmail.com
- Salt is the policeman of taste: it keeps the various
flavors of a dish in order and restrains the stronger
from tyrannizing over the weaker.
Salt can also easily destroy the taste of dishes, and
make them all taste pretty much the same -- salty!
dk
- Of course I have used dissonance in my time, but there has been too much dissonance. Bach used dissonance as good salt for his music. Others applied pepper, seasoned the dishes more and more highly, till all healthy appetites were sick and until the music was nothing but pepper.

Prokofiev
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2017-03-20 22:04:32 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by g***@gmail.com
If there is a recipe for creating stable and orderly
societies, did the imperial governments provide the
"Stable" and "orderly" do not guarantee freedom in any
degree.
- In my youth I stressed freedom, and in my old age I stress order. I have made the great discovery that liberty is a product of order.

Will Durant
g***@gmail.com
2017-03-22 09:28:19 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
If there is a recipe for creating stable and orderly
societies, did the imperial governments provide the
"Stable" and "orderly" do not guarantee freedom in any
degree.
The following comment was made at the Youtube upload of Furtwangler's 1943 Brahms 4th:

- I cannot imagine what it must have been like to play while your country is falling to pieces around you, everyone in the street is scared to death, and half your loved ones are dead or missing. I believe Furtwangler and everyone under his baton ached to create salvation for the human souls around them. You can hear them yearning for peace.
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 06:23:46 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
If you are referring to Hitler:

- ...How Britain and America Made the Third Reich:

https://athens.indymedia.org/media/old/guido_preparata_-_conjuring_hitler._how_britain_and_america_made_the_third_reich.pdf
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 06:32:32 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
https://athens.indymedia.org/media/old/guido_preparata_-_conjuring_hitler._how_britain_and_america_made_the_third_reich.pdf
That article also says:

- The sheer amount of lies perpetrated by the Anglo-American establishment against its public in order to preserve the myth that World War II was a 'good' war, won for a just cause, in incalculable.
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 06:38:32 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
https://athens.indymedia.org/media/old/guido_preparata_-_conjuring_hitler._how_britain_and_america_made_the_third_reich.pdf
- The sheer amount of lies perpetrated by the Anglo-American establishment against its public in order to preserve the myth that World War II was a 'good' war, won for a just cause, in incalculable.
That article ALSO says:

- In sum, the Allied elites have told a story. The story that the Germans have always been disturbers of the peace; they disturbed it once and were punished for it although a little too harshly. Out of such blundering castigation, an evil force materialized out of nowhere – a force whose evil greatly exceeded the petty severity of the Allies that caused such evil to emerge despite themselves. And, the story goes, the evil of this force grew to be such that a violent global conflict became necessary to uproot it.

More than a cock-and-bull story, this is an insult...
g***@gmail.com
2017-01-27 08:25:28 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
https://athens.indymedia.org/media/old/guido_preparata_-_conjuring_hitler._how_britain_and_america_made_the_third_reich.pdf
- The sheer amount of lies perpetrated by the Anglo-American establishment against its public in order to preserve the myth that World War II was a 'good' war, won for a just cause, in incalculable.
- In sum, the Allied elites have told a story. The story that the Germans have always been disturbers of the peace; they disturbed it once and were punished for it although a little too harshly. Out of such blundering castigation, an evil force materialized out of nowhere – a force whose evil greatly exceeded the petty severity of the Allies that caused such evil to emerge despite themselves. And, the story goes, the evil of this force grew to be such that a violent global conflict became necessary to uproot it.
More than a cock-and-bull story, this is an insult...
Here is a recent book review which may be of interest:

- Frankopan remarks on the hypocrisy of accusing Germany of empire building when empire maintenance was the goal of the European allies.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/booksandbooklists/fl/Peter-Frankopans-The-Silk-Roads-A-New-History-of-the-World_2.htm
g***@gmail.com
2017-02-06 10:02:51 UTC
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Post by Herman
Post by Frank Berger
A tyrant can create order.
sometimes they have to kill a couple of million people, but hey, you can't bake an omelet...
- Aside from the occasional genocide, oppression, evil and torture, etc., it is inarguable that public policy could be implemented more rapidly in an autocracy.

David Harsanyi
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2016-11-26 10:10:31 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-8, Tony
On Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26:34 UTC+2, Frank
Post by Frank Berger
The classical objection to the gold standard is that
the inability to find new gold could hinder the
ability of the economy to grow. I don't know how to
compare this risk with that of the government
debasing a fiat currency in order to get more
purchasing power for itself.
The act of increasing the gold reserves through your
own mining is not necessary for the furtherance of
credit if you simply revalue the price of gold. It is
a way of devaluing, and in FDR's time it
simultaneously brought in foreign gold to be stored.
Price change as always changes behaviour. Even today
there is still the possibility to revalue gold if the
US wants to suddenly import inflation.
One should not rule this out.
Speaking of that, I think Trump will do very well in
some ways,
Build more hotels and casinos? ;-)
but at some point I think he'll have a problem related
to a fall in the value of the dollar. I don't know
much about bonds, but already they are selling off
hard. It might not be a funding crisis per se as there
can always be further easing, but I'm pretty confident
that later this decade we will see a marked decline in
dollar value, something like a reckoning point of
years of debt and easing and past failure to spend
wisely on things like infrastructure. You sometimes
hear this sort of warning from a gold-storing loony.
Actually you get the sense they are hoping for it. It
does have a base in sound reasoning when the conditions
and policies meet though.
It remains to be seen which economy goes down the drain
faster than the others. US's? Japan's? EU's? Britain's?
China's?
If this does happen, it will of course be pinned on
the poor orange bugger, but in truth it won't be his
fault as it's something that's been long-building over
decades. He would just be the trigger for it.
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things
that cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in
the meaning he seems to imply simply because it no longer
has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over
the rest of the world, as was the case between roughly
1930 and 1970. This is not fixable.
dk
Well, he didn't say "greatest," he said "great."
Personally, I don't even know what that means. Or rather, I
know what I would consider a "great" country to be. But the
very political spectrum we have essentially means that we
don't all have the same view of what "great" means. And it
isn't just that we have different ideas of how to get there.
At this point in time, I would say that a great country solves/prevents problems rather than creates them.
And a great country creates order out of chaos, not vice versa.
- In my youth I stressed freedom, and in my old age I stress order. I have made the great discovery that liberty is a product of order.

Will Durant
Tony
2016-11-11 10:18:44 UTC
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Post by dk
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things that
cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in the meaning
he seems to imply simply because it no longer has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over the
rest of the world, as was the case between roughly 1930 and
1970. This is not fixable.
dk
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
dk
2016-11-11 17:12:06 UTC
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Post by Tony
Post by dk
Fair enough, however he should not promise to fix things that
cannot be fixed. America is no longer "great" in the meaning
he seems to imply simply because it no longer has a commanding
economical/financial/industrial/manufacturing lead over the
rest of the world, as was the case between roughly 1930 and
1970. This is not fixable.
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about
restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to
some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly.
With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of
team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion.
What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut
regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a
lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Borrow a few trillion dollars, then claim them as capital
losses on his tax return ;-)

dk
3Bs
2016-11-11 20:41:11 UTC
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Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
Frank Berger
2016-11-11 20:48:35 UTC
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Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
The amount of outstanding debt is not the real problem. The
problem is excessive government spending as a share of the
total economy. In other words the extent to which the
government redirects spending to its purposes from the those
of the private sector. It doesn't matter much if this
spending is paid for by current taxes or borrowing (future
taxes). Not that government spending should be zero. But
no one has figured out how to keep the federal government
from growing its share excessively. Our Constitutional
checks and balances (including "instransigence") helps some.
dk
2016-11-12 00:46:14 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
The amount of outstanding debt is not the real problem. The
problem is excessive government spending as a share of the
total economy. In other words the extent to which the
government redirects spending to its purposes from the those
of the private sector. It doesn't matter much if this
spending is paid for by current taxes or borrowing (future
taxes). Not that government spending should be zero. But
no one has figured out how to keep the federal government
from growing its share excessively. Our Constitutional
checks and balances (including "intransigence") helps some.
?!? Isn't it government spending that creates the debt ?!?

dk
graham
2016-11-12 03:39:50 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
The amount of outstanding debt is not the real problem. The
problem is excessive government spending as a share of the
total economy. In other words the extent to which the
government redirects spending to its purposes from the those
of the private sector. It doesn't matter much if this
spending is paid for by current taxes or borrowing (future
taxes). Not that government spending should be zero. But
no one has figured out how to keep the federal government
from growing its share excessively. Our Constitutional
checks and balances (including "intransigence") helps some.
?!? Isn't it government spending that creates the debt ?!?
dk
Coupled with inadequate taxation.
Frank Berger
2016-11-12 23:28:40 UTC
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Post by dk
Post by Frank Berger
Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
The amount of outstanding debt is not the real problem. The
problem is excessive government spending as a share of the
total economy. In other words the extent to which the
government redirects spending to its purposes from the those
of the private sector. It doesn't matter much if this
spending is paid for by current taxes or borrowing (future
taxes). Not that government spending should be zero. But
no one has figured out how to keep the federal government
from growing its share excessively. Our Constitutional
checks and balances (including "intransigence") helps some.
?!? Isn't it government spending that creates the debt ?!?
dk
Not per se. Government spending could, in principle, be
funded entirely by current tax revenue. There would be no
debt at all.
Tony
2016-11-11 22:14:06 UTC
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Post by 3Bs
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending.
I agree but I think the effect is more about where that money to spend will come from.

Hedgeye made some good points today -- that two of the strongest sectors in the economy--housing and healthcare--are going to take a hit if interest rates rise next month and Obamacare is repealed.
Post by 3Bs
And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
When was the last time the debt ceiling wasn't raised?
c***@williams.edu
2016-11-11 22:21:55 UTC
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Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
As Dick Cheney famously said, as W. was destroying Clinton's surplus, "Deficits don't matter." At least not when it's Republicans running them up.
graham
2016-11-12 00:30:58 UTC
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Post by c***@williams.edu
Post by 3Bs
Post by Tony
During the election (or primary), Trump briefly talked about restructuring the national debt. That implies defaulting to some extent. I think he was forced to drop this idea quickly. With him we just don't know. We don't even know what sort of team he's building. It's why I don't want to rush to an opinion. What it sounds like so far is he's going to cut taxes, cut regulations, cut existing medical agreements, and spend a lot to invest. I'm not sure how he's going to fund this.
Markets are up in expectation of greater spending. And the last 20 years of R administrations show that their concern about debt only lasts through the campaign.
As Dick Cheney famously said, as W. was destroying Clinton's surplus, "Deficits don't matter." At least not when it's Republicans running them up.
That's true of most RW administrations elsewhere.
Tony
2016-11-10 08:56:49 UTC
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Post by Bozo
"So he won. The nation takes a deep breath. Raw ego and proud illiteracy have won out, and a severely learning-disabled man with a real character problem will be president
Like the Guardian during the election (and still now actually), I just cannot read this sort of tripe. The learning-disabled are the only-left-leaning-in-words media and news publications. In terms of appearance vs behaviour, they are very Clintonesque. There are some serious concerns about Trump, but 90% of what's written are assumptions --- not models working on theories, but just plain ego-driven assumptions with some party-based ones thrown in.

I understand why so many people loved hearing the media is corrupt and dishonest. It wasn't just their blind adherence to Clinton. It was in this vein:

Media: rednecks, hillbillies, KKK and racist middle-aged white men vote for Trump

Fact: labour force participation is at a level last seen in the 1970s

Media: Trump will start world war 3

Fact: Clinton's warring past, and in-campaign dump on Russia

Media: Mexicans, Muslims, illegals, black people and even foreigners will be punished for certain

Fact: Trump's wife is Slovenian, his workers are foreign, and he trades around the world (yes anyone can interpret this as sex and money, but that doesn't remove what it is).

I am not saying that media assumptions were or will be incorrect in these examples. I'm trying to say that the corruption was and is in the spin of fundamentally whitewashing core facts which affect the very crux of American life (at least in the first two examples). Trump worked a masterclass in tying Clinton and the media together. Frankly all the evidence proves he's right about that. Both Clinton and the media could have won this with less spin and more direct sincere communication.
Herman
2016-11-10 12:24:19 UTC
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Post by Tony
Fact: Trump's wife is Slovenian, his workers are foreign, and he trades around the world (yes anyone can interpret this as sex and money, but that doesn't remove what it is).
it's indeed a fact that Trump's wife hails from Slovenia, but if that negates the obvious xenophobia in Trump's campaign we're back to the "Some of my best friends are black" line - which Trump retooled into his mortifying "Where's my black fan?" at some rallies.

I don't know what "his workers are foreign" really means, but there are reports that he used to work with undocumented folks, whom he threatened with deportation if they wanted to get paid 100%.
Tony
2016-11-10 14:19:20 UTC
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Post by Herman
we're back to the "Some of my best friends are black"
haha it's true :)
Post by Herman
I don't know what "his workers are foreign" really means, but there are reports that he used to work with undocumented folks, whom he threatened with deportation if they wanted to get paid 100%.
I don't want to be an apologist for him, as I also believe he's a harsh and even threatening businessman who wants to maximise profit, one of those guys whose main concern is to increase the share price. The third example was bad. I wanted to point out that the media I saw did not emphasise the death in the economy which drove a lot of Brexit and a lot of Trump voting. 4.9% unemployment is the headline number. Not or hardly mentioned are despairingly low participation, and a one-sided move from full-time to part-time jobs. I'm not there and can't see it, but to me all sub-headline news implies a moribund workforce. Tie that to the economy being the first or at least a top three concern, and you get something like this -- a leader who can bring jobs while dumping a lot of restrictions and ineffectual ties. If people have their living standards shrinking alarmingly, they'll have to respond somehow. That doesn't mean they're necessarily rednecks or racists or woman-haters.

The positive side of this is that a genuine and affirmative socialist-leaning left can emerge in the Democratic party. Bernie will be too old to lead it, probably, but someone else will come forward. Between dying living standards and automation, something like that should come out.
Frank Berger
2016-11-10 17:02:09 UTC
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Post by Tony
Post by Herman
we're back to the "Some of my best friends are black"
haha it's true :)
Post by Herman
I don't know what "his workers are foreign" really means, but there are reports that he used to work with undocumented folks, whom he threatened with deportation if they wanted to get paid 100%.
I don't want to be an apologist for him, as I also believe he's a harsh and even threatening businessman who wants to maximise profit, one of those guys whose main concern is to increase the share price. The third example was bad. I wanted to point out that the media I saw did not emphasise the death in the economy which drove a lot of Brexit and a lot of Trump voting. 4.9% unemployment is the headline number. Not or hardly mentioned are despairingly low participation, and a one-sided move from full-time to part-time jobs. I'm not there and can't see it, but to me all sub-headline news implies a moribund workforce. Tie that to the economy being the first or at least a top three concern, and you get something like this -- a leader who can bring jobs while dumping a lot of restrictions and ineffectual ties. If people have their living standards shrinking alarmingly, they'll have to respond somehow. That doesn't mean they're necessarily rednecks or racists or woman-haters.
The positive side of this is that a genuine and affirmative socialist-leaning left can emerge in the Democratic party. Bernie will be too old to lead it, probably, but someone else will come forward. Between dying living standards and automation, something like that should come out.
You had me until the end. :-)
dk
2016-11-10 21:04:50 UTC
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37919124/canadas-immigration-website-crashed-as-donald-trump-becomes-us-president

Apparently New Zealand's too!

dk
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