Discussion:
Cliburn-Live Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata-Moscow,1960
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Rugby
2010-06-13 20:31:30 UTC
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Holy Cow !! :



And the 1913 original version, my preferred.

Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.

Rugby
Neil
2010-06-14 06:28:02 UTC
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Post by Rugby
Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.
No! ITs the great pianists release. It was issued on RCA at one point.
There is no better performance of the 2nd sonata I reckon, inc
Horowitz!
HvT
2010-06-14 07:03:54 UTC
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Post by Neil
Post by Rugby
Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.
No! ITs the great pianists release. It was issued on RCA at one point.
There is no better performance of the 2nd sonata I reckon, inc
Horowitz!
Cliburn's performance of the sonata on the GPOC is the only version that
makes the music sound better than it is ...

Henk
Rugby
2010-06-14 12:35:53 UTC
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Post by Neil
Post by Rugby
Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.
No! ITs the great pianists release. It was issued on RCA at one point.
There is no better performance of the 2nd sonata I reckon, inc
Horowitz!
Thanks.
Well, about equal with Horowitz,Villa, but Cliburn has the advantage
of being the only one who does the original 1913, Horowitz a
combination of 1913/1931 versions, Villa the 1931 or Horowitz versin
(?).

Rugby
AGrey
2010-06-14 13:58:08 UTC
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Post by Rugby
Post by Neil
Post by Rugby
Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.
No! ITs the great pianists release. It was issued on RCA at one point.
There is no better performance of the 2nd sonata I reckon, inc
Horowitz!
Thanks.
Well, about equal with Horowitz,Villa, but Cliburn has the advantage
of being the only one who does the original 1913, Horowitz a
combination of 1913/1931 versions, Villa the 1931 or Horowitz versin
(?).
Rugby
Is this the same performance of the Rachmaninov Op.36 that was
released last year on the VAI 'Van Cliburn in Moscow' DVD Volume 4?

http://www.vaimusic.com/VIDEO/DVD_4452_53_54_Cliburn.htm

Alan
Tony
2010-06-14 19:46:12 UTC
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Post by Neil
Post by Rugby
Is this the same performance as on "My Favorite Rachmaninoff" lp, now
cd, he did originally for RCA ? Sound quality of the RCA ? Thanks.
No! ITs the great pianists release. It was issued on RCA at one point.
There is no better performance of the 2nd sonata I reckon, inc
Horowitz!
There is only 1 Cliburn recording of the Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata, live
from Moscow in 1960 done on Melodiya tape that was released on RCA.
The Philips Great Pianists release is just a licensing of the same
performance, which is currently best heard on RCA's "My Favorite
Rachmaninoff" though the improvement in sound quality isn't dramatic.
This same performance is found on the recent VAI video. Cliburn
thought about making a studio recording, but agreed with Pfeiffer that
he could not improve upon the live Moscow performance. If anybody has
a recording of an alternative performance of Cliburn in this sonata
I'd love to hear it, as there is comparatively little live Cliburn
material out there despite his prolific concertizing in the 60s.

Incidentally, while Cliburn plays the original uncut edition of the
sonata, technically it is not the original edition because Cliburn
incorporates a small change that Rachmaninoff made in the revised
edition which Cliburn felt was musically better than the music of the
original for that bar or so, it's not really a cut but a replacement.

cheers,
Tony
Rugby
2010-06-14 20:48:00 UTC
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On Jun 14, 2:46 pm, Tony <***@gmail.com> wrote:


Huge thanks, Tony, much appreciated.

Rugby
Rugby
2010-06-15 03:35:48 UTC
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Post by Rugby
Huge thanks, Tony, much appreciated.
Rugby
In fact, I did a comparative listen tonight of 4 Rachmaninoff 2nd
Sonatas : This 1960 Cliburn, ,Ratser,Muraro,Villa. I also have early
Ogdon, Ponti, and Fiorentino in my collection. Agree with you and TD,
the Cliburn is a bit apart. Was able to find one cheap, coupled with
the Prokofieff 6th he also did early on.

Thanks again for your help.

I saw him live in the early 60's in a solo recital that included
Fantasiestucke ( I think) and concluded with the Barber Sonata.Rilda
Bee was backstage with him.And saw him one more time live in 1968 when
he appeared at a concert with the Minneapolis Symphony celebrating the
10th anniversary of the Moscow win.He played both the Tchaikovsky 1
and Rach 2, plus 4 encores inlcuding the Szymanowski Etude. In 1968,
he appeared tired, with furrowed brow, did not seem to be enjoying
himself much.

Rugby
Sol L. Siegel
2010-06-19 23:41:41 UTC
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Post by Rugby
I saw him live in the early 60's in a solo recital that included
Fantasiestucke ( I think) and concluded with the Barber Sonata.Rilda
Bee was backstage with him.And saw him one more time live in 1968 when
he appeared at a concert with the Minneapolis Symphony celebrating the
10th anniversary of the Moscow win.He played both the Tchaikovsky 1
and Rach 2, plus 4 encores inlcuding the Szymanowski Etude. In 1968,
he appeared tired, with furrowed brow, did not seem to be enjoying
himself much.
I only saw him live in concerto appearances at the Robin Hood Dell and
the Mann Center (the latter, IIRC, was still called Dell West at the
time), in tired performances of tired repertory. Then he would do
encores and come alive. The best performances I've heard of the Chopin
C# minor Scherzo and the Rachmaninov G major Prelude come from those
occasions.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Rugby
2010-06-22 01:17:42 UTC
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Post by Rugby
the Cliburn is a bit apart. Was able to find one cheap, coupled with
the Prokofieff 6th he also did early on.
The BMG "RCA Collection " series from about 1988 , with a Rachmaninoff
Prelude and Etude as encores.

The extraordinary live 1960 Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata as discussed, in
very good sound.

What a difference 10 years makes. The apparently studio Prokofieff 6th
sad,depressed and depressing,elegiac at best, far removed from the
1960 Carnegie of Richter , or most 6th's I've heard,perhaps more a
reflection of Cliburn's angst at the time than Prokofieff's.

Regards, Rugby
Rugby
2010-06-22 01:20:45 UTC
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What a difference 10 years makes. The apparently studio Prokofieff 6th...
Sorry, missed the date of the Prokofieff ; was 1970.

Rugby
Sol L. Siegel
2010-06-22 05:05:28 UTC
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Post by Rugby
The BMG "RCA Collection " series from about 1988 , with a Rachmaninoff
Prelude and Etude as encores.
The extraordinary live 1960 Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata as discussed, in
very good sound.
What a difference 10 years makes. The apparently studio Prokofieff 6th
sad,depressed and depressing,elegiac at best, far removed from the
1960 Carnegie of Richter , or most 6th's I've heard,perhaps more a
reflection of Cliburn's angst at the time than Prokofieff's.
YMMV indeed: It was that recording (coupled on LP with the Barber, IIRC)
that turned me on to the sonata, and I still love it. The recoupling
with the Rachmaminoff makes it one of the best Cliburn CDs IMHO.
Including the E-flat minor Etude-Tableau didn't hurt.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Frank Berger
2010-06-22 07:30:14 UTC
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Post by Rugby
Post by Rugby
the Cliburn is a bit apart. Was able to find one cheap, coupled with
the Prokofieff 6th he also did early on.
The BMG "RCA Collection " series from about 1988 , with a Rachmaninoff
Prelude and Etude as encores.
The extraordinary live 1960 Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata as discussed, in
very good sound.
What a difference 10 years makes. The apparently studio Prokofieff 6th
sad,depressed and depressing,elegiac at best, far removed from the
1960 Carnegie of Richter , or most 6th's I've heard,perhaps more a
reflection of Cliburn's angst at the time than Prokofieff's.
Regards, Rugby
I assume you're aware of the 1959 Cliburn Prokofiev 6th on Testament. Quite
a bit livelier, as I recall.
Rugby
2010-06-22 12:26:10 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I assume you're aware of the 1959 Cliburn Prokofiev 6th on Testament. Quite
a bit livelier, as I recall.
Have not heard, but thanks for the tip. The 1959 is live ? Your
reaction to the 1959 seems to confirm my concerns about the 1970.

Rugby
Frank Berger
2010-06-22 19:18:48 UTC
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Post by Frank Berger
I assume you're aware of the 1959 Cliburn Prokofiev 6th on
Testament. Quite a bit livelier, as I recall.
Have not heard, but thanks for the tip. The 1959 is live ? Your
reaction to the 1959 seems to confirm my concerns about the 1970.
Rugby
Distler review at classicstoday.com

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12601


The Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalcdreviews/7103244/Van-Cliburn-Recital-CD-review.html
Bozo
2017-08-07 02:19:40 UTC
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And now a video of the recorded performance :


O
2017-08-07 12:50:05 UTC
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Post by Bozo
http://youtu.be/q_f6DlShKi0
Thanks for this, Bozo!

-Owen

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